Trusk'our he/him Posted February 7, 2025 Posted February 7, 2025 Been a little while since I've done one of these, but WaT has given me a few new ideas and a fresher perspective. We've seen an open example of Hemalurgy on Roshar now, or at least something using the same mechanism of splicing Investiture into a recipient's Spiritweb. And, we've seen that crystal spikes can pin a Spren to a location, which was actually part of the original plan to trap Unmade though it got changed eventually. Spoiler https://wob.coppermind.net/events/467-youtube-spoiler-stream-2/#e14724 Ezio della Torre Was Teft's death part of your plan from the book's inception or series's inception, or did you decide his fate while writing Rhythm of War? Brandon Sanderson Teft's fate was decided pretty early on, but these sorts of things I do leave wiggle room on. When you read Teft's first appearance—it's in Mythwalker, my ninth book that never got finished—his appearance in that book was built around this kind of character arc that eventually happened. This was baked into the original idea for Stormlight once I brought over Bridge Four and once I stuck Teft inBridge Four, from Mythwalker. But I do remain pretty flexible on these things. That is one that turned out working really well, and happening the way I'd intended for it to happen from the beginning. But... I mean, if you've read Way of Kings Prime, you'll know that there was a point in the outlining process, and even in writing that book, where Dalinar killed Elhokar, rather than him being killed by Moash. So, you can see that these things do change, these things bounce around, but yes, the Moash betrayal and the him killing Teft was an original <incarnation> of Way of Kings. So the original 2010 version of Way of Kings, it was part of that outline. There are things that have changed though, over the years. A big one's, of course, a lot of Adolin's arc is not in that. I go back to that one because Adolin was involved, but he was a much smaller character than he ended up being. And Adolin changing has caused all kinds of ripples through everything in large measure. For instance, all of the stuff with Maya was not in the original outline. This is stuff that I developed over time because I was not planning Adolin to have as big a role in the series as he ended up having. That's a good example of things I've changed over time. A lot of the Cosmere-aware stuff, I didn't know how much I would push on that, and it turns out I've pushed further than in the outlines I originally thought I would. Because when I was starting this, I still didn't know if people would jump onboard with this as much as they have. [...] Reading Way of Kings Prime is a great way to see how things have changed since. The big changes you will see there between 2002 and 2010... I guess I wrote the book in 2009, so... in those seven years, you can see a lot of the transformations that the book and the world and the series went through. It's kind of nice. Those of you who've read it recently can probably remember more about what's changed than I do. I come back to the big ones, like that book had Unmade spiked with crystalline spikes, in the basement of the version of Urithiru before I changed it to what it is now, and that is just no longer in the books, right. Unmade getting spiked and being freed by spikes to the wall is not a thing. I'm sticking them in gemstones now, right, instead of spiking them to walls. I felt like the whole Hemalurgy thing we've covered well enough. But that was in the 2002 version. *Adam goes on a diatribe about how he'd like to see fanart of this* It was ten spikes too. Spoiler https://wob.coppermind.net/events/514-general-reddit-2023/#e16216 Clowdtail12 I was just wondering if Sando [Brandon] has ever said what was behind the very ornate door under The First Capital [in The Way of Kings Prime]? Brandon Sanderson An Unmade was behind that door, spiked with crystal spikes to the wall, holding it and preventing it from going anywhere. I believe I talked about it on a stream somewhere. This was very, very early Hemalurgy--and some of the things I was planning there are no longer canon. You probably could still spike an Unmade to bind it to the Physical Realm, though, so that part remains viable. This, I think, should be possible with metal spikes too, given Kelsier's situation. So, my thinking is, what if you created a Hemalurgically sound bullet, spiked a Spren onto it (a very nasty kind, like an anger or death Spren), then shot an enemy with it? Perhaps this would allow you to hit them with a hostile piece of sentient Investiture, which would continue to attack Invested individuals from the inside. What's more, Navani's experiments with taming lesser Spren might mean you could also train them to do this better, encouraging them to attack and destroy. Or, maybe this would be a viable method for Investing other metal weapons on Roshar. Want a shield to resist Shardblades? Skip the Fabrial and spike some Bindspren for durability. Want a sharper sword? Maybe a cutting Spren exists to be harnessed. Heck, with the right training, metal, and Spren, you might be able to craft a functional suit of Shardplate, all without Surgebinding or Awakening. I suppose a lot of these techniques could be accomplished with gemstone tech, but I feel this might be simpler and easier on a large scale. Or, perhaps it could simply become a Scadrian method of creating Fabrials in the space era. 3
Lord Ruler Sylphrena He/Him Posted February 7, 2025 Posted February 7, 2025 1 hour ago, Trusk'our said: Been a little while since I've done one of these, but WaT has given me a few new ideas and a fresher perspective. We've seen an open example of Hemalurgy on Roshar now, or at least something using the same mechanism of splicing Investiture into a recipient's Spiritweb. And, we've seen that crystal spikes can pin a Spren to a location, which was actually part of the original plan to trap Unmade though it got changed eventually. Hide contents https://wob.coppermind.net/events/467-youtube-spoiler-stream-2/#e14724 Ezio della Torre Was Teft's death part of your plan from the book's inception or series's inception, or did you decide his fate while writing Rhythm of War? Brandon Sanderson Teft's fate was decided pretty early on, but these sorts of things I do leave wiggle room on. When you read Teft's first appearance—it's in Mythwalker, my ninth book that never got finished—his appearance in that book was built around this kind of character arc that eventually happened. This was baked into the original idea for Stormlight once I brought over Bridge Four and once I stuck Teft inBridge Four, from Mythwalker. But I do remain pretty flexible on these things. That is one that turned out working really well, and happening the way I'd intended for it to happen from the beginning. But... I mean, if you've read Way of Kings Prime, you'll know that there was a point in the outlining process, and even in writing that book, where Dalinar killed Elhokar, rather than him being killed by Moash. So, you can see that these things do change, these things bounce around, but yes, the Moash betrayal and the him killing Teft was an original <incarnation> of Way of Kings. So the original 2010 version of Way of Kings, it was part of that outline. There are things that have changed though, over the years. A big one's, of course, a lot of Adolin's arc is not in that. I go back to that one because Adolin was involved, but he was a much smaller character than he ended up being. And Adolin changing has caused all kinds of ripples through everything in large measure. For instance, all of the stuff with Maya was not in the original outline. This is stuff that I developed over time because I was not planning Adolin to have as big a role in the series as he ended up having. That's a good example of things I've changed over time. A lot of the Cosmere-aware stuff, I didn't know how much I would push on that, and it turns out I've pushed further than in the outlines I originally thought I would. Because when I was starting this, I still didn't know if people would jump onboard with this as much as they have. [...] Reading Way of Kings Prime is a great way to see how things have changed since. The big changes you will see there between 2002 and 2010... I guess I wrote the book in 2009, so... in those seven years, you can see a lot of the transformations that the book and the world and the series went through. It's kind of nice. Those of you who've read it recently can probably remember more about what's changed than I do. I come back to the big ones, like that book had Unmade spiked with crystalline spikes, in the basement of the version of Urithiru before I changed it to what it is now, and that is just no longer in the books, right. Unmade getting spiked and being freed by spikes to the wall is not a thing. I'm sticking them in gemstones now, right, instead of spiking them to walls. I felt like the whole Hemalurgy thing we've covered well enough. But that was in the 2002 version. *Adam goes on a diatribe about how he'd like to see fanart of this* It was ten spikes too. Hide contents https://wob.coppermind.net/events/514-general-reddit-2023/#e16216 Clowdtail12 I was just wondering if Sando [Brandon] has ever said what was behind the very ornate door under The First Capital [in The Way of Kings Prime]? Brandon Sanderson An Unmade was behind that door, spiked with crystal spikes to the wall, holding it and preventing it from going anywhere. I believe I talked about it on a stream somewhere. This was very, very early Hemalurgy--and some of the things I was planning there are no longer canon. You probably could still spike an Unmade to bind it to the Physical Realm, though, so that part remains viable. This, I think, should be possible with metal spikes too, given Kelsier's situation. So, my thinking is, what if you created a Hemalurgically sound bullet, spiked a Spren onto it (a very nasty kind, like an anger or death Spren), then shot an enemy with it? Perhaps this would allow you to hit them with a hostile piece of sentient Investiture, which would continue to attack Invested individuals from the inside. What's more, Navani's experiments with taming lesser Spren might mean you could also train them to do this better, encouraging them to attack and destroy. Or, maybe this would be a viable method for Investing other metal weapons on Roshar. Want a shield to resist Shardblades? Skip the Fabrial and spike some Bindspren for durability. Want a sharper sword? Maybe a cutting Spren exists to be harnessed. Heck, with the right training, metal, and Spren, you might be able to craft a functional suit of Shardplate, all without Surgebinding or Awakening. I suppose a lot of these techniques could be accomplished with gemstone tech, but I feel this might be simpler and easier on a large scale. Or, perhaps it could simply become a Scadrian method of creating Fabrials in the space era. This is a very cool idea but I'm leaning against it. As the idea comes from non-canon material its hard to say if the result will be as described. What Brandon appears to be suggesting is after spiking a sprens connection to the CR you then give the spren a spike that has a connection to the PR. This forces them to manifest in the physical realm and then the spikes will physically hold them in place. Ishar probably used his bondsmith powers to get a similar result. Making sure a spren doesn't gain a physical form and goes into a object instead would probably would require using a additional spike. A nicrosil spike should work as sprens bodies are made of investiture (I think) and a nicrosil spike would absorb that. This might imbue objects with the properties of the spren but I think it is far more likely that the spren dies from being spiked and loses its properties. Ishars method was already lethal and hemalurgy severely lowers chances of survival. Hemalurgy is a fun system but I think you will have to rely on fabrials for harnessing the power of spren. As even if you find a way to keep the spren alive the damage will be significant and I doubt the spren will be cooperative. I'm also not sure how you would get spikes to form shardplate as spikes need to be stored in blood to retain strength and we have only seen the properties of spikes granted to people and not objects. One cool thing you could do theoretically is becoming a cognitive shadow through hemalurgy. If you manage to spike whatever part of a spren has connection to the CR you could fully or partially transform your body to be like that of a spren. Best case scenario you might gain the sprens agelessness and the ability to reform after being injured. 1
Trusk'our he/him Posted February 8, 2025 Author Posted February 8, 2025 16 hours ago, Lord Ruler Sylphrena said: This is a very cool idea but I'm leaning against it. As the idea comes from non-canon material its hard to say if the result will be as described. What Brandon appears to be suggesting is after spiking a sprens connection to the CR you then give the spren a spike that has a connection to the PR. This forces them to manifest in the physical realm and then the spikes will physically hold them in place. Ishar probably used his bondsmith powers to get a similar result. You raise a fair point in that we still do not fully understand how Hemalurgy interacts with Spren, nor Gemstones used as an alternative focus. However, we do know that both Ishar and Battar used some version of this Hemalurgy, though for different reasons. I think this at least hints at this being less a result of Bondsmithing, and more a natural interaction with Investiture they can exploit. 16 hours ago, Lord Ruler Sylphrena said: Making sure a spren doesn't gain a physical form and goes into a object instead would probably would require using a additional spike. A nicrosil spike should work as sprens bodies are made of investiture (I think) and a nicrosil spike would absorb that. This might imbue objects with the properties of the spren but I think it is far more likely that the spren dies from being spiked and loses its properties. Ishars method was already lethal and hemalurgy severely lowers chances of survival. I'll admit that since we don't yet know the full mechanics of this system that we cannot determine with certainty what is possible, but I suspect that no stolen Spiritweb fragments were involved with the Spren-spiking we've seen. I think, instead, this method simply relies on the same Realmatics that capture Spren in Gemstones to begin with. With the right Intent and the correct focus you bind a Spren to a location or entity, the Gemstone or metal acting only as the medium necessary. Otherwise, I'm not sure Moash's transformation could have happened, as Ruin's ability to facilitate Spiritweb theft seems to be tied to metals alone and Battar probably lacks the necessary Bondsmithing to compensate. Though, she is a primal Surgebinder separately from her Honorblade abilities, and we know from other WoBs that you can spike Investiture off of or into Spren, so this headcannon of mine could just be false. 17 hours ago, Lord Ruler Sylphrena said: Hemalurgy is a fun system but I think you will have to rely on fabrials for harnessing the power of spren. As even if you find a way to keep the spren alive the damage will be significant and I doubt the spren will be cooperative. I'm also not sure how you would get spikes to form shardplate as spikes need to be stored in blood to retain strength and we have only seen the properties of spikes granted to people and not objects. A fair take, and there very well may be more complications than I'm imagining. 17 hours ago, Lord Ruler Sylphrena said: One cool thing you could do theoretically is becoming a cognitive shadow through hemalurgy. If you manage to spike whatever part of a spren has connection to the CR you could fully or partially transform your body to be like that of a spren. Best case scenario you might gain the sprens agelessness and the ability to reform after being injured. Could be, if done right. Fiddling with Connection might be enough on its own to gain agelessness. I've actually wondered, could you spike a recently deceased person, reattaching their Spiritweb to their body? Normally, we see that this requires extraordinary amounts of Investiture to make them persist, but I wonder if this is strictly necessary to actually pin a soul to a body, Kelsier style.
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