Ripheus23 Posted January 26, 2025 Posted January 26, 2025 (edited) I was looking through the Coppermind entry on the Tai-na, they mentioned that the spren of the Reshi islands are believed to be sapient. So, examples of, or at least on the same level, as the Radiants' Nahel spren? I mean, I guess we've been told that those are really the mandra, but so... Well, for lack of a better question: can mandra be bonded in the Nahel way, to make sprenblades or spren armor? What would Shardplate constituted from mandra be like? Anyway, then, I wonder if there's any dim connection between the nature of Yelig-nar and the yu-nerig. There's a moderate amount of non-basic symmetry to the words, for example: "ig," "nar"/"ner," the "y" at the beginning. The glaring asymmetry, then (besides lack of palindromatic mirroring) is for "Yel" and "yu." Maybe being able to bond with mandras as they are, the yu-nerig also have some Spiritual characteristic such that they represent that, if a human or similar Surgebinder bonded with mandra, they would in some irregular manner get access to all the Surges, like how having Yelig-nar makes one able to use all the Surges. (Or, perhaps, if there were mandra Shardplate, it would be bedecked with elements of the Identities of all the Surges, so like super-stronger or whatever.) I feel like I'm partly on the right track, but partly on the wrong track. Something is itching in my head, to the effect that I shouldn't be trying to imagine mandraplate. That's not the right tangent in the magic system, or something... Fitting this into the Herald/Dawncity/Unmade-merger theory: on the assumption that Kaladin would be Connected (or whatever) most especially, in this sense, to Sesemalex Dar, and that by him would Yelig-nar be Remade (healed/redeemed), what we might have is the proverb about the eyes-of-red-and-blue in that Yelig-nar would bring in the red and Sylphrena the blue. Maybe Kaladin would get Yelig-nar to bond one of the yu-nerig, then, though getting one of those from the shores of Marabethia to the Emuli interior would be a weird, tall order, unless maybe Retribution's distortion of the ecosystem at large would motivate marine greatshells to come farther inland during their chrysalis stage or something. Edited January 26, 2025 by Ripheus23
Treamayne Posted January 27, 2025 Posted January 27, 2025 3 hours ago, Ripheus23 said: Well, for lack of a better question: can mandra be bonded in the Nahel way, to make sprenblades or spren armor? What would Shardplate constituted from mandra be like? Mandras do form Nahel Bonds, with Greatshells. As for Radiant bonds, they are not one of the True Spren or the Plate Spren (Spoiler Image). But note that other spren are also known to induce levels of Sapience through the Nahel Bond, such as Musicspren bonds to Ryshadium (confirmed WaT Ch 11 when Adolin meets the spren that had bonded Sureblood). Spoiler Tom Goldthwait At any point in the Rosharan history, was it possible to form a Nahel bond without swearing oaths? Brandon Sanderson "Nahel bond" is the phrase used for a bond between a spren and a being from the Physical Realm. That is the definition of it. So the answer to that is yes; it's currently possible right now. It's how greatshells exist and grow to the size they do. It's how Ryshadium exist. Those are Nahel bonds also. What you're asking is if a sapient spren, a spren and a sapient individual, forming what we currently call the Radiant bond, which has access to much greater power; was that possible without swearing oaths? Yes and no. The formalization of the oaths and the Orders aligned with certain spren did take a little bit of time to come together. It was possible to form a Nahel bond before that, but it was not a Radiant bond accessing the levels of powers that are currently possible. So it's another one of these "yes and no" answers, if that makes any sense. You could find a Nahel bond... In fact, many would call the bond between the singers and the spren that give them forms Nahel bonds. It may not fit fully into the categorization that most people would use it for, but you could kinda call that the same thing. YouTube Spoiler Stream 1 (Dec. 17, 2020) 3 hours ago, Ripheus23 said: Anyway, then, I wonder if there's any dim connection between the nature of Yelig-nar and the yu-nerig. There's a moderate amount of non-basic symmetry to the words, for example: "ig," "nar"/"ner," the "y" at the beginning. Unlikely that there is a connection, Yelig-Nar is named and inspired by Lovecraft (one of two unmade that were not based on Middle-eastern mythology). Whereas Yu-narig are named in the language tradition of Selay (which influences the lingustics of Iri, Rira, Reshi and the Purelake dialects of the former SIlver Kingdom Sela Tales). While we know much of the real-world inspirations that led to the in-story Vorin Languages (Alethi, Thaylen, Veden), we don't yet have much information of how Brandon constructed the Iri language family. Spoiler Quote Doombrigade (paraphrased) I noticed most of the Unmade have a Middle Eastern mythology inspiration, and could pair them with deities, but I couldn't find a fit for two: Yelig-nar and Ba-Ado-Mishram. Could you tell us their names' origin? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Those two are actully not Middle Eastern but actually inspired by Lovecraft. ICon 2019 (Oct. 17, 2019) Quote IneptProfessional Since you mention languages on Roshar, are there any languages that are completely unrelated to any other on the planet? Brandon Sanderson Our basic language families are: Vorin: Alethi, Veden, Herdazian, and more distantly Thaylen. Nathan is close to dead, but shares a root, and Karbranthian is basically a dialect. Other minor languages like Bav are in here. Makabaki: Azish is king here, and most the languages around split off this. There are around thirty of these. Dawnate: A varied language family with distant roots in the dawnchant. Shin, parshendi, Horneater. They share grammar, but they diverged long enough ago that the vocabulary is very different. Iri: Iriali, Reshi, Purelake dialects, Riran, and some surrounding languages. Aimian: These two are lumped together, but are very different. Probably what you were looking for. That isn't counting spren languages, of course. I might have missed something. Typing on my phone without my wiki handy. General Reddit 2016 (Nov. 29, 2016) Quote Bradtholomew What is the origin of the name Kaladin? My wife and I recently had our first child and that's what we named him. Just curious if there's any story behind the name. Brandon Sanderson I use Arabic in some of the creation of Alethi names, and Kaled (or Khaled) was the root I started playing with to come up with a new name for Kaladin, as I didn't like the one I'd used in 2002. I'd already designed Kalak after this, the Herald, and wanted a common name version of this. When I arrived at Kaladin, it sounded right to me--likely because of the similarity to Paladin, as others noted below. Dragonsandman So if Kaladin's name is derived from Khaled, is it fair to assume that the Alethi language sounds similar to Arabic? Brandon Sanderson Alethi has some Hebrew to it too. I used Semitic language roots for the Dawnchant, which had a huge influence on Rosharan languages. While there are a few oddballs rules, and some linguistics that stand on their own, both major language groups on Roshar (the Azish family and the Vorin family) would probably sound very Arabic to you. For example, the Alethi Kh is a voiceless velar fricative. The Azish kk or q sound is a voiceless uvular, sometimes stop, sometimes an affricate. Sometimes a uvular ejective. No, I can't make those sounds on demand. Peter can, though. It's helpful to have a linguist on my team. Shin is its own language, as is Iriali. /r/fantasy AMA 2017 (Feb. 10, 2017) Hope that helps 2
Ripheus23 Posted January 27, 2025 Author Posted January 27, 2025 8 minutes ago, Treamayne said: Unlikely that there is a connection, Yelig-Nar is named and inspired by Lovecraft ... who infamously was afraid of giant underwater monsters and other sea creatures
Treamayne Posted January 27, 2025 Posted January 27, 2025 23 minutes ago, Ripheus23 said: ... who infamously was afraid of giant underwater monsters and other sea creatures Are you trying to say Lovecraft was afraid of marine fauna? Do you have a source for that? The only known source for Lovecraft's personal fears that I am aware of was his stating that the "Black mourning wardrobe" of his female family terrified him when he was young (about 5 yo) and inspired his then-nightmares that influences sotires of night-gaunts. From TOW: Spoiler While there is no indication that Lovecraft was particularly close to his grandmother, Robie, her death in 1896 had a profound effect on him. According to him, it sent his family into "a gloom from which it never fully recovered". His mother and aunts wore black mourning dresses that "terrified" him. This was also the time when Lovecraft, approximately five-and-a-half years old, started having nightmares that later informed his fictional writings. Specifically, he began to have recurring nightmares of beings he referred to as "night-gaunts". He credited their appearance to the influence of Doré's illustrations, which would "whirl me through space at a sickening rate of speed, the while fretting & impelling me with their detestable tridents". Thirty years later, night-gaunts appeared in Lovecraft's fiction.
Ripheus23 Posted January 27, 2025 Author Posted January 27, 2025 5 minutes ago, Treamayne said: Are you trying to say Lovecraft was afraid of marine fauna? Do you have a source for that? The only known source for Lovecraft's personal fears that I am aware of was his stating that the "Black mourning wardrobe" of his female family terrified him when he was young (about 5 yo) and inspired his then-nightmares that influences sotires of night-gaunts. From TOW: Reveal hidden contents While there is no indication that Lovecraft was particularly close to his grandmother, Robie, her death in 1896 had a profound effect on him. According to him, it sent his family into "a gloom from which it never fully recovered". His mother and aunts wore black mourning dresses that "terrified" him. This was also the time when Lovecraft, approximately five-and-a-half years old, started having nightmares that later informed his fictional writings. Specifically, he began to have recurring nightmares of beings he referred to as "night-gaunts". He credited their appearance to the influence of Doré's illustrations, which would "whirl me through space at a sickening rate of speed, the while fretting & impelling me with their detestable tridents". Thirty years later, night-gaunts appeared in Lovecraft's fiction. Kahajová[20] reads: Quote Lovecraft was afraid of nearly everything. Perhaps the most notable fear of Lovecraft’s was his unconditional fear of the ocean and anything connected with it. Be it marine life or seafood in general. Lovecraft was able to put his own horrors on paper and create monsters and deities that came from the ocean. Not only were the monsters marine, but they were also invertebrates and made of a gelatinous mass, playing into two more fears that Lovecraft had. Generally, I was under the impression that this was common knowledge (hence why I used the word "infamously"), see e.g. this Reddit thread where they say (in listing his fears): Quote As other posters have noted: fish and underwater life generally 1
Treamayne Posted January 27, 2025 Posted January 27, 2025 5 minutes ago, Ripheus23 said: I was under the impression that this was common knowledge Maybe common knowledge amongst people that like Lovecraft's stories. I have some familiarity with the Cthulu Mythos (and how it inspired other works, like MHI), but am not a fan of Lovecraft's stories directly. Trying to search for something like the quote you mentioned yielded useless results (because results were all about his stories, not about him).
Ripheus23 Posted January 27, 2025 Author Posted January 27, 2025 Just now, Treamayne said: Maybe common knowledge amongst people that like Lovecraft's stories. I have some familiarity with the Cthulu Mythos (and how it inspired other works, like MHI), but am not a fan of Lovecraft's stories directly. Trying to search for something like the quote you mentioned yielded useless results (because results were all about his stories, not about him). Here's a better source (the link to the other essay is coded in the year number for it): Quote Lovecraft self-diagnosed himself with a plenitude of phobias, one being the fear of the ocean (Harrington 27). Harrington, Seán. ‘The Depths of our Experience: Thalassophobia and the Oceanic Horror’ Beasts of the Deep: Sea Creatures and Popular Culture, edited by Jon Hackett and Seán Harrington, John Libbey Publishing, 2018. pp. 27-41 1
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