3rd Scadrian Shard?

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

So in the Mistborn books they mention:

Allomancy being of Preservation (Shard of Adonalsium)

Hemalurgy being of Ruin (Shard of Adonalsium)

Feruchemy being of Balance (?)

When this was mentioned, Harmony was not yet in power, Harmony and Balance are different, and we know that feruchemy predates Allomancy and Hemalurgy.

Some Other notes on Balance are: Ruin (Ati) mentions Balance (when Vin has become preservation) as something like the friction between Ruin and Preservation.

So my question: What is Balance? Is Balance a 3rd shard of Scadrial? Is it the friction between opposing shards? If the second, how was Feruchemy made? Could a remanent of the shard Balance be on Scadrial, opposing Ruin and Preservation? What are Brandon's intentions of making Sazed 'Harmony' and not Balance? Is there something I'm missing?

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

I have just the WOB for you:

Spoiler

Argent (paraphrased)

Feruchemy is the "balance" between Ruin and Preservation. Would any combination of Shards create a "balance" magic, so to speak, or are only certain Shards compatible?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Feruchemy ended up being a balance system, because of how polar Ruin and Preservation were. Any world with at least two Shards will result in a similar phenomenon. 

Argent (paraphrased)

Like Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Like Roshar. There is something like that going on there.

 

[AleStaar he/him]

Feruchemy is of balance between both Shards. This is seen in how each Metallic Art reflects the Intent of the Shards.

To ensure great Allomantic potential, a bloodline must be Preserved as purely as possible. Allomancy doesn’t cause great physical changes, thus Preserving the body. The workings of Hemalurgy are all about decay.

Filling a metalmind temporarily Ruins the body, mind, and/or soul. Tapping a metalmind Preserves the body, mind, and/or soul by strengthening them. Leaving a metalmind alone leaves them alone - Preserving.

 

[alder24]

9 hours ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

So in the Mistborn books they mention:

Allomancy being of Preservation (Shard of Adonalsium)

Hemalurgy being of Ruin (Shard of Adonalsium)

Feruchemy being of Balance (?)

When this was mentioned, Harmony was not yet in power, Harmony and Balance are different, and we know that feruchemy predates Allomancy and Hemalurgy.

Some Other notes on Balance are: Ruin (Ati) mentions Balance (when Vin has become preservation) as something like the friction between Ruin and Preservation.

So my question: What is Balance? Is Balance a 3rd shard of Scadrial? Is it the friction between opposing shards? If the second, how was Feruchemy made? Could a remanent of the shard Balance be on Scadrial, opposing Ruin and Preservation? What are Brandon's intentions of making Sazed 'Harmony' and not Balance? Is there something I'm missing?

It's not about Harmony, it's not about Balance, it's just mixing both Ruin and Preservation. Invested Arts arise because of interactions between Shards and the world they invested in. When two or more Shards settle on one planet, interaction between them causes several Invested Arts to manifest, one ending up being a kind of merger of both powers, a balanced system created from both Shards. 

Spoiler

[...]

Kaimipono

On a broader level, is Hemalurgy officially dead, then? Or is it still extant in some Ruin-free (but still messy) form? (If it's gone, is there any imbalance since Preservation's magic power is kept and Ruin's isn't?)

Brandon Sanderson

Is Hemalurgy dead? No, not at all. It, like the other two powers, was not created by Ruin or Preservation, but by the natural state of the world and its interaction with the gods who created it. It still requires the same method of creation, but very few people are aware of how it works.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

With Allomancy is of Preservation, and you have Hemalurgy, which is of Ruin. Is Feruchemy a joint effort between the two? Or is it a third party?

Brandon Sanderson

Joint effort.

FanX 2018 (Sept. 8, 2018)

 

Spoiler

UndertakerSheep

If I remember correctly, Allomancy is from Preservation, Hemalurgy is from Ruin and Feruchemy is from both Preservation and Ruin.

legobmw99

This is correct. It isn't caused by a shard, but the interaction of two opposing shards

[...]

General Reddit 2016 (Aug. 20, 2016)

 

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

Thanks! That was really helpful! I still think there might be something in how Harmony wasn't named Balance, but that makes a lot of sense.

[PanicPug]

11 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

I have just the WOB for you:

  Hide contents

Argent (paraphrased)

Feruchemy is the "balance" between Ruin and Preservation. Would any combination of Shards create a "balance" magic, so to speak, or are only certain Shards compatible?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Feruchemy ended up being a balance system, because of how polar Ruin and Preservation were. Any world with at least two Shards will result in a similar phenomenon. 

Argent (paraphrased)

Like Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Like Roshar. There is something like that going on there.

 

Not sure if I should better post that in a separate post because it's about TSA rather than Mistborn, but: 

What does that mean for Roshar with three shards?

Spoiler

One magic system for each and then all 6 different possible combinations (H, C, O, H-C, C-O, O-H, H-C-O)? Or is it always a combination of just two? And what are the ones we know and to whom are they connected? 

H or H-C: Surgebinding?

C : Old Magic

H-O: Voidbinding?

 

Edited December 20, 2024 by PanicPug
Hidden TSA part

[alder24]

17 hours ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

Thanks! That was really helpful! I still think there might be something in how Harmony wasn't named Balance, but that makes a lot of sense.

Vessels can influence the name of their Shards. Sazed chose the name Harmony because it felt right to him and because in harmony both parts are working together. In balance they don't need to work together, they are just equal, which actually is not the case for Harmony as there is more Ruin in him than Preservation (just as it was previously) because Leras invested more of himself into people. If he wouldn't have been able to control those Shards properly, he would have been Discord. 

Spoiler

Argent

When Sazed picked up the Shards of Preservation and Ruin, did he actively choose to be known as Harmony (instead of, for example, Balance, or Equilibrium, or Stability), or is there some Cosmeric law that says Preservation + Ruin = Harmony?

Brandon Sanderson

He chose the name, but in part because it FELT right to him.

Argent

Is this similar to how a Shard's "personality" overwrites the Shardholder's over time?

Brandon Sanderson

Similar, yes.

/r/books AMA 2015 (June 17, 2015)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

Is there a significance between Harmony and Discord being musical terms? And would they be considered different Investiture tones? 

Brandon Sanderson

Yes and no. So what's going on here is that... it is significant, I chose those two terms very specifically. Not gonna tell you a lot about Discord or things like that, but the idea is that idea of Harmony is in... the sounds are in harmony, they are working together. In Discord they are not. I wouldn't call them Investiture tones, more the way the two tones are responding to each other.

JordanCon 2021 (July 17, 2021)

 

 

17 hours ago, PanicPug said:

Not sure if I should better post that in a separate post because it's about TSA rather than Mistborn, but: 

What does that mean for Roshar with three shards?

  Hide contents

One magic system for each and then all 6 different possible combinations (H, C, O, H-C, C-O, O-H, H-C-O)? Or is it always a combination of just two? And what are the ones we know and to whom are they connected? 

H or H-C: Surgebinding?

C : Old Magic

H-O: Voidbinding?

 

SA spoilers:

Spoiler

This division isn't really as clear and important as it is on Scadrial. There was a WoB stating that, but now I can't really find it. It's still there but there is also a problem with how to categorize magic systems on Roshar - is Surgebinding one magic system, or maybe Windrunning or each Surge is its own magic system. Brandon does say that this isn't really that clear as it is on Scadrial. Something is going on there, Surgebinding is of both Honor and Cultivation, Voidbinding seems to be of all three Shards, Old Magic is weird, but it doesn't look like Honor or Odium have their own magic systems not shared with other Shards, Cultivation maybe has Old Magic, but to me this seems as her past draconic nature thing as dragons do boons and curses in general. 

Spoiler

Crspu

Is there going to be a magic system for every Shard? 

Brandon Sanderson

Uh, yes, whether there'll be books? We get into a problem here... is... what is a magic system, right? 

So for instance like, would you count all of Surgebinding as one magic system, or is it ten magic systems, right? Is Windrunning a separate magic system from Skybreaking. Right, and is it the Surges? Is it that? What do you call a magic system? Is the system of fabrials a magic system, or is it a subset of what's happening on Roshar? And in that case, it's like I delineated it pretty strongly in Mistborn, but in Stormlight, it's like... kind of Surgebinding is kind of Honor and Cultivation, right? And so is there a magic system for each of them or not?

So the answer is yes and no, in that every one of the Shards will inspire really interesting magic systems. But is there a one to one? What do you call a magic system? And beyond that, will I have time to write books about all of these, I don't know. You could even look at Sel. Sel has how many magic systems, is it one? Is it lots? Is Forging a different magic system from AonDor, or is it two aspects of the same magic system and so... It's tricky. 

YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 (June 3, 2021)