Metalmind/Spike Hybridization

[Trusk'our he/him]

As of right now, there are two paths to obtain access to the Metallic Arts without being born with it. Unsealed Metalminds and Hemalurgy (plus Lerasium, but that's a whole different beast).

Each has pros and cons of use:

Unsealed Metalminds have far less moral ambiguity, seem more sustainable, and are less burdensome on both the initial Metalborn used to create the Metalmind and the recipient of the powers.

Hemalurgic spikes are far quicker and easier to make on a small scale, don't have as large a restriction on how many powers you can grant an individual (you can even combine them with Unsealed Metalminds), and can change aspects of a person in ways Metalminds haven't been seen doing. 

It's likely that both systems will continue to exist separately for a while, each holding to their unique advantages. However, I wonder, could you make a hybrid vessel, one that makes the best use of both Unsealed Metalminds and Hemalurgy?

Perhaps if you were to craft an Unsealed Metalmind, you could add a small Hemalurgic charge to it in order to bridge the gap between the metal's Investiture and the recipient's Spiritweb. You might just be able to have a spike with a minimal footprint but that can hold multiple powers, and ones that are clean of human suffering too (getting the Spiritweb bridge might be harder, but probably less burdensome than getting a fully functional piece).

This makes the assumption that Hemalurgy's method of transferring powers is fundamentally different than that of Unsealed Metalminds (though the fact a person's spikes holds no sway over your medallion use supports this, I think), and that you can even discover a way to mix Hemalurgy's method of transference with Metalmind powers, but I think it's at least worth exploring. 

Plus, if a Hemalurgic component is used, you might be able to make a larger, more cybernetic component to physically augment the bearer as well. I further explored this idea in the Cosmere forum here.

Additional thoughts?

[Treamayne]

3 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

Unsealed Metalminds have far less moral ambiguity

This still seems like an unfounded assumption, since we do not know what an Excisor is, the method of use, or any other data. I think it's likely that Hemalurgy is invoved somehow, which means the moral aspect is not removed at all - you just trade 1 person receiving all of the benefit of killing somebody vs. a Fabrial that can be used by many people (one-at-a-time) for less flexibility and power by a greater number of "recipients."

I would not be willing to compare these two on any moral or ethical scale until we actually know for-certain the details of making an Unsealed Metalmind.

[Trusk'our he/him]

2 hours ago, Treamayne said:

This still seems like an unfounded assumption, since we do not know what an Excisor is, the method of use, or any other data. I think it's likely that Hemalurgy is invoved somehow, which means the moral aspect is not removed at all - you just trade 1 person receiving all of the benefit of killing somebody vs. a Fabrial that can be used by many people (one-at-a-time) for less flexibility and power by a greater number of "recipients."

I would not be willing to compare these two on any moral or ethical scale until we actually know for-certain the details of making an Unsealed Metalmind.

True, we really need more informed before we can be confident in an answer. 

However, based on this WoB, I suspect that if Hemalurgy is involved in medallion creation, it's only in a minor way. 

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/402-starsight-release-party/#e13353

Pod

*Written* How many people are intentionally killed in the process of creating a typical medallion? 

Brandon Sanderson

*Written* Not as many as you think. 

Traditional Hemalurgy cannot generate extra powers on its own- each power must come from an individual Metalborn (gold Feruchemy could possibly change this, but it has its own complications, mainly that of high cost).

The number of Firesoul medallions necessary to keep their people afloat seems like it would be astronomically out of proportion if the Southern Scadrians didn't have a method independent of Hemalurgy to duplicate them. A form of Nicrosil Compounding, possibly. 

Edited December 13, 2024 by Trusk'our

[Quantus he/him]

11 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

True, we really need more informed before we can be confident in an answer. 

However, based on this WoB, I suspect that if Hemalurgy is involved in medallion creation, it's only in a minor way. 

  Hide contents

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/402-starsight-release-party/#e13353

Pod

*Written* How many people are intentionally killed in the process of creating a typical medallion? 

Brandon Sanderson

*Written* Not as many as you think. 

Traditional Hemalurgy cannot generate extra powers on its own- each power must come from an individual Metalborn (gold Feruchemy could possibly change this, but it has its own complications, mainly that of high cost).

The number of Firesoul medallions necessary to keep their people afloat seems like it would be astronomically out of proportion if the Southern Scadrians didn't have a method independent of Hemalurgy to duplicate them. A form of Nicrosil Compounding, possibly. 

Per this WOB Hemalurgy should be Optional (to the best of his recollection at the time).

 

Spoiler

 

Quote

 

Yata

If you have 32 Misting and Ferring, every kind possible, without using Hemalurgy, you can craft a medallion? Without the aftermath of the--

Brandon Sanderson

So could you craft a medallion... without-- oh. That should be possible, but this is one of the things where I have to dig out the notes and double-check myself. But this should be possible.

Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

 

 

 

PS, Anyone going to any WoT events or whatever think they can call him on this promise to jus tell us after The Lost Metal?

Spoiler

Quote

 

Questioner

Does creating unsealed metalmind involve Feruchemical duralumin?

Brandon Sanderson

(hesitating)...Yes. I will write it all out for you eventually. I want to get at least one more book done, then you find out exactly why and how.

Questioner

Because I was pretty confused about the Investiture and Spiritweb...

Brandon Sanderson

Here is the reason I'm kind of hesitant of this, [why not you just RAFO this one right now], but it is not a RAFO, because it is like it's a secret. I want to write it out exactly how it happens, because I have it in my notes in bullet points and it's complicated, right? Cause I want some of the things in the magic system as be as complicated as for instance explaining how a computer works right now. You can do it, but you know...I want the magic to start getting that technical if that makes sense. When you say "involve", right, that's a big word. Why just don't you let me, after lost metal...if I haven't released it, you have permission to come to me and say: "Brandon, you said you would release this, you haven't yet [...]" and I will give to you the bullet point flowchart of how you build the unkeyed metalminds.

Leipzig Book Fair (March 24, 2017)

 

 

 

[Trusk'our he/him]

42 minutes ago, Quantus said:

PS, Anyone going to any WoT events or whatever think they can call him on this promise to jus tell us after The Lost Metal?

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That would be so awesome. 

I feels like that's something he would have saved for an on-screen appearance though. It's really weird he promised this.

46 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Per this WOB Hemalurgy should be Optional (to the best of his recollection at the time).

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Makes sense to me.

My boxings are on the Excisors being another form of Unsealed Metalmind, comprised of Feruchemical Nicrosil, aluminum, maybe duralumin, and probably Allomantic Nicrosil for easy duplication.