The Old Magic and their Intent

[Elder]

A line that jumped out at me in Honor’s Memories:

Spoiler

SHADOWS OF DIVINITY WITH INSTRUCTIONS TO PROTECT, TO SHROUD, TO NURTURE.

- Wind and Truth

The Wind obviously protects, but which one shrouds, and which one nurtures?  
 

My first thought is Stone nurturing and Night shrouding… but Cultivation latched on to Night just like Honor did the wind.  On the other hand, the Sibling was derived from stone and the Sibling does seem to nurture.

 

[logicless.bt]

Night would have to shroud. It's an extremely night-themed word. Since the Stone gave of itself so that people could have tools, and like you mentioned the Sibling gives to their people, Stone fits nurture.

Honestly, the strangest part to me is Wind protecting. How ... does that fit at all? It should scatter, or explore, or freaking frolic or something.

I suppose that Kaladin has used wind to protect from highstorms before. Maybe the Wind used to protect creatures from the storm -- but in that case, why did things evolve to survive highstorms?

[Ewery1]

3 minutes ago, logicless.bt said:

Night would have to shroud. It's an extremely night-themed word. Since the Stone gave of itself so that people could have tools, and like you mentioned the Sibling gives to their people, Stone fits nurture.

Honestly, the strangest part to me is Wind protecting. How ... does that fit at all? It should scatter, or explore, or freaking frolic or something.

I suppose that Kaladin has used wind to protect from highstorms before. Maybe the Wind used to protect creatures from the storm -- but in that case, why did things evolve to survive highstorms?

Brandon had Tanavast (or Taravangian?) note how strange it is for Wind to be the protector as well. To me that points to this being something unresolved. My tinfoil hat theory is that Adonalsium saw this eventuality and created Wind to one day protect the spren via Kaladin.

[Elder]

On 12/11/2024 at 9:11 PM, logicless.bt said:

Night would have to shroud. It's an extremely night-themed word. Since the Stone gave of itself so that people could have tools, and like you mentioned the Sibling gives to their people, Stone fits nurture.

Honestly, the strangest part to me is Wind protecting. How ... does that fit at all? It should scatter, or explore, or freaking frolic or something.

I suppose that Kaladin has used wind to protect from highstorms before. Maybe the Wind used to protect creatures from the storm -- but in that case, why did things evolve to survive highstorms?

Note, in the Epigraphs, the Well of Control is in the “shroud of the fragments of the dead moon.”

is that shroud Stone?  Or is it Night (cause moon)?

I don’t think this keen observation narrows it down at all.

[logicless.bt]

16 minutes ago, Elder said:

Note, in the Epigraphs, the Well of Control is in the “shroud of the fragments of the dead moon.”

is that shroud Stone?  Or is it Night (cause moon)?

I don’t think this keen observation narrows it down at all.

Hmm. No one has made this connection before, and I really like it. That said, didn't Night leave well after Honor and Cultivation showed up, while the 4th moon crashed before they were there? It's still possible that Night discovered whatever pool is there and then decided to shroud it ...

[TheoreticalMagic]

Perhaps a wild take, but with the speculation about a fourth Shard associated with the fourth moon....I'm wondering if perhaps it could be Reason, hidden there all along....even though Reason was supposedly the one who just wants to hide and survive. I think most of us have taken that to assume that Reason is deliberately far away from any conflict, but there was nothing in the wording I think that necessitates that interpretation. Maybe that quote was more about Reason not getting involved or doing anything to advertise its presence, BECAUSE of how near it was to the conflict, and it figured the best thing it could do was just hunker down and shelter in place....hide and survive.

The Reason Shard has also been associated with the quote floated about one Shard not being Invested in a world......what if that's a technicality, and its actually that Reason is Invested in a world's MOON. And thus, Reason might actually be the one that shrouds - fitting with it being the one that just wants to hide and survive - and as speculated above, is the one associated with Night....which is where the moon is SUPPOSED to be, or was originally....

And it actually makes sense IMO that if Reason was Invested in the fourth moon and crashed before Honor and Cultivation got there....maybe Reason was like oh crap once they realized a whole bunch of Shard messiness was about to land on its vacation home before it had a chance to pack up and move elsewhere without attracting attention or anyone knowing they'd been there or where they were going. And thus, they just made their entire deal about hiding from the three other Shards to end up in that system, hoping to outlast them, basically....which it Reasoned was theoretically possible - and their best chance of survival.....so long as nobody ever figured out that there was a fourth Shard there all along.

PLUS.

The other thing I like about the idea that Reason has been secretly Invested in Roshar.....or something that crashed into Roshar destructively and extensively enough to mix all its parts together....is I think there's some significance still yet to uncover about the Tower, that highest reaching plateau on the Shattered Plains, aka the site where that moon crashed into Roshar....a moon whose fragments under the Shattered Plain react to the conflict between Honor and Odium. Perhaps the reaction is Reason trying to conceal its presence and Investiture from Honor and Odium....having to frequently adjust or change their "shroud" in order to keep from being accidentally uncovered as a byproduct of that conflict? Those fragments are also said to obscure a Shard's vision....which fits perfectly with the idea of a Night shroud....Invested in by a Shard that just wants to hide from other Shards and survive.

The reason I bring up the Tower is I keep wondering about a possible connection to Urithiru, even if only in the sense that Urithiru was in some way inspired by the Tower or something to do with it. Still working on this idea, but the fact that nobody seems to know exactly who made Urithiru or how....the fact that the Oathgates allow passage to it through the Cognitive Realm....the fact that the third Bondsmith spren, one decidedly NOT associated with the third KNOWN god of Roshar, Odium....ALSO spent a ton of time withdrawing from the world and 'just trying to hide and survive'.....

And the fact that Urithiru is where Navani discovered Towerlight....through scientific methods that definitely feel like the product of Reason to me....

Still trying to bring it all together, but I feel like there's SOMETHING here.....and I wonder if Reason - who Brandon ALSO has said INITIALLY just wanted to hide and survive, but in a fairly recent quote I can't source at the moment, said they had (or might have) at some point changed their mind about that being the right approach....

What I'm wondering is if Reason, literally hiding right under everyone's noses on Roshar all along....eventually decided even if they did stay successfully hidden, the Shard conflict had escalated to such a degree they were worried about being destroyed or killed purely as collateral damage....or else decided that Odium was a threat that they had to actively oppose, even if they Reasoned they weren't a match for him in any kind of direct conflict....

And so, taking advantage of the shroud provided by the already existing Sibling - child of Honor and Cultivation - which already had the capacity to create Towerlight, a blend of their Tones....Reason figured out a way to secretly Invest in the Sibling, Urithiru, Towerlight, etc....make Towerlight their Light or "hack" it or use it as a cover to obscure the fact that they were slipping their own Light into the mix as a ringer for some unknown purpose....

Thus joining the conflict and nudging things towards the direction they preferred most, while still retaining their cover for as long as possible.....

Leading to the current stage where Retribution SEEMS to be the only god left on Roshar, now that Cultivation is gone...and certainly thinks he is, perhaps because a certain being is still messing with futuresight and continuing to shroud the presence of still yet another god....not a newcomer, but actually the one that's been on Roshar the longest, and knows more of its secrets than anyone at this point....and Reason just has to figure out a way how to use that to their advantage without giving up their biggest advantage....the fact that nobody else knows its there, the secret player behind the scenes from day one.

And I can't think of a more perfect champion for Reason than Navani Kholin....

Of course, if Cultivation is indisputably Night, that throws the whole Night/moon/shroud/Reason theory off, but most of this logic could still track with the idea that Reason is Invested in stone....the Stone that comes from the moon it originally Invested in. But Stone nurturing does fit Cultivation way better so I think there's wiggle room either way.

Edited December 14, 2024 by TheoreticalMagic