Not-onomy

[Through the Living Shadow he/him]

Autonomy is weird.

Like, really weird.

Case in point: Her investiture is red. Her metal has red flecks. What kind of gmetal has red flecks? Also, there is no importance in the color red in White Sand. (Yes, I know. White isn’t her color, it’s Preservations.)

Red, as it so happens, is the color of corrupted investiture.

Now, the Nightsiders on Taldain believed that Autonomy had not invested Nightside. But then there came the Starmarks. Something that is supposedly from Autonomy.

The Investiture from the sun only hits one side. But there is another sun, and although it is blocked, UV gets through and bioluminescently lights the flora. (Looking at Arcanum Unbounded rn)

What if UV is not the only thing to get through? What if there is a second (or rather, an unknown 16th) Shard there, combatting Autonomy’s every effort?

What if Autonomy was actually good, and her Avatars were actually failed attempts to break out of the Shards control?

On Taldain specifically, there seem to be many events that contradict themselves, all supposedly coming from Autonomy.

For example, two siblings drove the split Sand Masters and those who hate them. One of them became a Sandmaster after a visit from the Sand Lord, an avatar of Autonomy, and one was led to believe that Sand Mastery was horrible after a visit from the Sand Lord. And the Sand Lord supposedly has many faces. What if each one is a new attempt to break free by Autonomy, which were then corrupted?

One rebuttal may be that Khriss, the cosmere scholar, originates from here. But she became a cosmere scholar only after she left, and apparently Autonomy’s policy of isolation prevents people from traveling to and from Taldain, and Khriss herself states that this isolation is a direct contrast from her many avatars.

So there we go. Not-onomy.

I am accepting and welcoming criticism and especially WoBs that contradict this.

[Through the Living Shadow he/him]

Never mind, all.

He has directly stated that there is only one Shard on Taldain.

Spoiler

Jasonioan

What is the Shard on White Sand? Because we've both read White Sand.

Brandon Sanderson

The Shard-- So what the Shard is doing is, the Shard is the Sand God. But I didn't bring it out much, there's only one Shard on the planet. And the Shard actually kind of resides in the atmosphere and stuff like that but we decided to bring the Shard out a little bit more in the comic book so when you read that you'll be able to find a little more.

Jasonioan

Does it take effect in the Darkside?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, it does.

 

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Ookla the Dragonslayer said:

Case in point: Her investiture is red.

I'm more curious what makes you think this? TTBoMK, we have zero indications that Autonomy's color would be red. We see Red from Autonomy where she corrupts Scadrian Investiture, but that is because Corrupted Investiture is Red.

Where did you see/hear this (or is it your own theory)?

[Through the Living Shadow he/him]

4 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

I'm more curious what makes you think this? TTBoMK, we have zero indications that Autonomy's color would be red. We see Red from Autonomy where she corrupts Scadrian Investiture, but that is because Corrupted Investiture is Red.

Where did you see/hear this (or is it your own theory)?

When Wax is performing the tests,

He placed Trellium in the same color thing as Harmonium, and red went of the charts. (May be remembering wrong tho)

But this theory was disproved by… me.

[Treamayne]

2 minutes ago, Ookla the Dragonslayer said:

When Wax is performing the tests,

He placed Trellium in the same color thing as Harmonium, and red went of the charts.

Right, because it was Hemalurgy (ruin's magic) corrupted by Autonomy. Still corrupted investiture, not a pure sample of Autonomy's Investiture.

Personal Theory:

Spoiler

WoBs:

Quote

<Edited for length and Relevance>

emailanimal

[Brandon] must have had enough of chuckles every time someone referred to Bavadin as a "he" over the past few years.....

Brandon Sanderson

Bavadin has several male personas, and has often appeared as male for one purpose or another, so it's not that much of an issue. She has more female personas, but some of the male ones are quite popular.

This won't be relevant for a long while, but as a service to the community, let me say this: try not to get too hung up on gender, race, or even human appearance where Bavadin is concerned. There are some peoples who worship entire pantheons where every member is actually her.

General Reddit 2016 (Nov. 28, 2016)

Quote

Rah179

How significant will the White Sand be to the cosmere? Any hints on the Shard that resides there?

Brandon Sanderson

Moderately. (Its magic has some cool ramifications for off world use, and several characters factor prominently into the Cosmere.)

Phantine

Is there more than one magic system in white sand?

Brandon Sanderson

Only one in the current outline.

WeiryWriter

Does the one magic have more than one variation? Because I got the impression that there was something going on on the Darkside? Though I guess the Sky Colors (I think that's what they're called, I read the draft you send out early 2014 so my recollection is a little fuzzy) don't have to be related to magic. Or you could have written them out if they were...

Brandon Sanderson

In intended the colors on Darkside to be more a matter of the ecology than the magic--though, on that planet, magic and ecology are very closely tied together. (Well, I guess most of the magics are.)

/r/books AMA 2015 (July 29, 2015)

White Sand Ars Arcanum:

Quote

Take the color of the glow of sand mastery. Manuscripts and carvings show sand ribbons glowing yellow or orange, attempts by artists to show something undepictable with paint alone. Indeed, observed in pure daylight, sand mastery does appear a yellowish white, but a closer examination shows that it shimmers like mother of pearl, iridescent colors shifting and sliding across the mastered sand. This effect is much more prominent in darkness, something of a rarity here on Dayside. Since sand mastery rarely happens in darkness, not many have recorded observing this effect.

I can almost make out every color of starmark shifting in there. Could it be possible that the light given off by sand mastery is a composite of all colors of starmarks? If I can get hold of a prism, I might be able to verify this observation and study it further.

I beleive that Autonomy's native color is "opalescence" - due to their habit of making so many Avatars, including entire Pantheons where every member is an Avatar of Autonomy. Though, Opalesence is also just a PR clue that Invetiture is in play, so it could be less complicated than that. WoB:

Quote

Questioner

Does Gallant's eyes being rainbow have any cosmere significance?

Brandon Sanderson

It is an indication of his spren bond; it's a way that I was getting across that. A lot of times, when you see kind of mother-of-pearl or a rainbow shimmer of luminescence, that is an indication of something happening with Investiture in the cosmere. You'll see it in White Sand being used; you see it periodically in manifestations of the Nahel bond, and that sort of thing.

Tor Instagram Livestream (Nov. 25, 2020)

Brandon and Lightbringer Series (by Brent Weeks - minor spoilers):

Spoiler

Brandon may be playing a little loose with colors as well, especially if he does something like Lightbringer - that is an entire Light based magic, but magic "colors" in that series include SubRed (IR), SuperViolet (UV), Chi (Microwave) and Paryl (X-Ray).

So, if Brandon is doing something similar, Autonomy would make sense as UV for their color, since that would be the spectrum supplying investiture on both sides of Taldain - as part of AisDa's White Light, and RIdos' UV Pulse.

 

[Through the Living Shadow he/him]

Just now, Treamayne said:

Right, because it was Hemalurgy (ruin's magic) corrupted by Autonomy. Still corrupted investiture, not a pure sample of Autonomy's Investiture.

Personal Theory:

  Hide contents

WoBs:

White Sand Ars Arcanum:

I beleive that Autonomy's native color is "opalescence" - due to their habit of making so many Avatars, including entire Pantheons where every member is an Avatar of Autonomy. Though, Opalesence is also just a PR clue that Invetiture is in play, so it could be less complicated than that. WoB:

Brandon and Lightbringer Series (by Brent Weeks - minor spoilers):

  Hide contents

Brandon may be playing a little loose with colors as well, especially if he does something like Lightbringer - that is an entire Light based magic, but magic "colors" in that series include SubRed (IR), SuperViolet (UV), Chi (Microwave) and Paryl (X-Ray).

So, if Brandon is doing something similar, Autonomy would make sense as UV for their color, since that would be the spectrum supplying investiture on both sides of Taldain - as part of AisDa's White Light, and RIdos' UV Pulse.

 

Hemalurgy: I don't disagree, but this would indicate that there is something besides just using Trellium for hemalurgy, as hemalurgy does not have any intrinsic (is that how it's spelled?) investiture.

Color:

OOooooooooohhhhh... good point...

There are two and a half different Shards with two and a half variations on the color black...

Fragment of WoB:

Dominion: Black/White. Autonomy: It's complicated.

Also, Ruin is Black, and in the same WoB, Ambition is mono-black

Most of the colors have multiple Shards: (including Blue and Green)

Full WoB:

Spoiler

Hey u/mistborn I have a couple questions about Magic: the gathering.

What colors/kind of deck do you play in magic?

What colors are the known shards?

What colors are the various orders of the knights Radiant?

And finally, have you ever thought of doing the story for Wizards Of The Coast on one of their mtg blocks?

Brandon Sanderson

Any combo-style deck I can draft--or esper if I'm constructed.

Ruin: Black. Odium: Red. Honor: White. Preservation: White. Cultivation: Green. Devotion: Green/red. Dominion: Black/White. Autonomy: It's complicated.

(Also, question 3 is way too large for me to commit to right now. And for 4, if the right opportunity came along and they were interested, I could see myself doing this.)

SoupOrMan692

What about Endowment and Ambition?

Brandon Sanderson

Ambition is mono-black, and endowment is probably mono-green. Some of the blue shards are ones we haven't seen as much from yet.

 

[Treamayne]

16 minutes ago, Ookla the Dragonslayer said:

Fragment of WoB:

Dominion: Black/White. Autonomy: It's complicated.

Also, Ruin is Black, and in the same WoB, Ambition is mono-black

Most of the colors have multiple Shards: (including Blue and Green)

But that WoB is discussing Magic the Gathering Color combinations - not Cosmere Colors. There are many MtG Color Wobs for Cosmere:

Spoiler

Quote

Green Fire (paraphrased)

If Hoid would be printed as an MtG card, what would be his color and converted mana cost?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Brandon said he would be a "Straight Blue Planswalker" and "expensive" "probably 7 to 9 mana 4-6 colorless UUU"

A Memory of Light Baltimore signing (Feb. 18, 2013)

Quote

LordSkybreaker

Hey u/mistborn I have a couple questions about Magic: the gathering.

What colors/kind of deck do you play in magic?

What colors are the known shards?

What colors are the various orders of the knights Radiant?

And finally, have you ever thought of doing the story for Wizards Of The Coast on one of their mtg blocks?

Brandon Sanderson

Any combo-style deck I can draft--or esper if I'm constructed.

Ruin: Black. Odium: Red. Honor: White. Preservation: White. Cultivation: Green. Devotion: Green/red. Dominion: Black/White. Autonomy: It's complicated.

(Also, question 3 is way too large for me to commit to right now. And for 4, if the right opportunity came along and they were interested, I could see myself doing this.)

SoupOrMan692

What about Endowment and Ambition?

Brandon Sanderson

Ambition is mono-black, and endowment is probably mono-green. Some of the blue shards are ones we haven't seen as much from yet.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 5, 2018)

Quote

Glamdring804

While we're on the subject of you and MtG, do you have a spreadsheet or a document somewhere with the color identities of all your characters? Some of them are obvious, like Kelsier being red with maybe a splash of white, but others I can't make a solid decision on, like Vin.

Brandon Sanderson

See, I think Kelsier is blue black--though you're right, he probably has some red to him in his rebellious nature and focus on friendship and emotion. But no, I don't keep track of this. I enjoy talking about it with people, but it isn't an important part of how I design characters.

Glamdring804

Really? Blue black? I see where the blue comes from, and the black as well, but he was always felt like primarily red to me. Namely, his rebelliousness, desire for revenge, and general dislike of society’s structure feel like strong red traits to me. I suppose then, that might make him Grixis?

Brandon Sanderson

I could see Grixis.

Children of the Nameless Reddit AMA (Dec. 18, 2018)

 

If you are unfamilair with MtG's Color philosophies, these WoBs will not make much sense, unfortunately. For example:

Spoiler

Dominion: Black/White.:

White-Black – "Playing by Their Own Rules" Excerpt:

Quote

In short, White is all about doing what benefits the good of the group. You know using things like morals and ethics. Black, on the other hand, benefits itself. Black does what's good for Black. Not even Black as a whole - each Black mages looks out solely for himself, selling out any other Black mages if the needs arises. It's an understatement to say that these two vantage points are in direct conflict with one another. So how does the White/Black guild deal with this dichotomy? Compromises, my dear reader, compromises.

<snip>

The key to making this work is making sure everyone has a clear understanding of their place and order. This is why White/Black loves hierarchies. Unhappiness comes from wanting to achieve something you cannot. If you know your exact place, then you will not deceive yourself into believing that you will ever get any more, and you can be satisfied in knowing you will never get anything less. White/Black trades potential for security.

White/Black uses structure as a means of gaining power. He (or she) who makes the rules can make them in their own best interest. At the same time, White/Black feels an obligation towards the individuals who make up its structure.

White/Black has one last trick up its sleeve. While it uses its structure as a means to immobilize everyone it comes in contact with, it also, slowly (in the background), saps away the resources of all who oppose it. White/Black is patient. It understands that small gains (or the opponent's small losses) will build up over time. There's no need to rush if you have control of the situation.

<snip>

White/Black prefers a docile society. Thoughts can be swayed. Logic can be argued. But mindless instinct is a lost cause. The key to White/Black's success is convincing all those around it that what White/Black is doing is in their best interest.

Hmmm.... Sounds a bit like the Fjordell Empire. Yes?

 

[Through the Living Shadow he/him]

1 minute ago, Treamayne said:

But that WoB is discussing Magic the Gathering Color combinations - not Cosmere Colors. There are many MtG Color Wobs for Cosmere:

  Hide contents

 

If you are unfamilair with MtG's Color philosophies, these WoBs will not make much sense, unfortunately. For example:

  Reveal hidden contents

Dominion: Black/White.:

White-Black – "Playing by Their Own Rules" Excerpt:

Hmmm.... Sounds a bit like the Fjordell Empire. Yes?

 

Oh... oops.

This is what I get for skipping to end.

[Treamayne]

 

36 minutes ago, Ookla the Dragonslayer said:

Hemalurgy: I don't disagree, but this would indicate that there is something besides just using Trellium for hemalurgy, as hemalurgy does not have any intrinsic (is that how it's spelled?) investiture.

Yes, it is spelled correctly. intrinsic

But Hemalurgy does use Ruin's investiture. Ruin's power is the "scalpel" that cuts off the Hemalurgic Charge from the spirit web. Ruin's nature is why there is an inherent loss of power from that charge - the end-negative nature of Ruin is a core part of Hemalurgy (even if the stored charge is not "Ruin" based.

Sorry, I was editing to add this above when you replied - so I just moved it to a new post (accidental "enter" posted the first part of my reply before I was "done."

Edited December 9, 2024 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Trusk'our he/him]

8 hours ago, Treamayne said:

But Hemalurgy does use Ruin's investiture. Ruin's power is the "scalpel" that cuts off the Hemalurgic Charge from the spirit web. Ruin's nature is why there is an inherent loss of power from that charge - the end-negative nature of Ruin is a core part of Hemalurgy (even if the stored charge is not "Ruin" based.

There's also a strong possibility that Investiture stolen by Hemalurgy gets converted to Ruin's Intent. 

Powers used from spikes drive away Preservation's Mists, indicating the power is no longer of Preservation. 

There's also precedent for this in other Ruin aligned Investitures being able to convert other types to their own without strictly corrupting them, like Nightblood feeding on many Intents of Investiture, but only leaking a black colored Investiture, the color of Ruin.

Edited December 9, 2024 by Trusk'our

[Through the Living Shadow he/him]

9 hours ago, Trusk&#x27;our said:

There's also a strong possibility that Investiture stolen by Hemalurgy gets converted to Ruin's Intent. 

Powers used from spikes drive away Preservation's Mists, indicating the power is no longer of Preservation. 

There's also precedent for this in other Ruin aligned Investitures being able to convert other types to their own without strictly corrupting them, like Nightblood feeding on many Intents of Investiture, but only leaking a black colored Investiture, the color of Ruin.

 

11 hours ago, Treamayne said:

 

Yes, it is spelled correctly. intrinsic

But Hemalurgy does use Ruin's investiture. Ruin's power is the "scalpel" that cuts off the Hemalurgic Charge from the spirit web. Ruin's nature is why there is an inherent loss of power from that charge - the end-negative nature of Ruin is a core part of Hemalurgy (even if the stored charge is not "Ruin" based.

Sorry, I was editing to add this above when you replied - so I just moved it to a new post (accidental "enter" posted the first part of my reply before I was "done."

Mmmmhhhhh good points. But still, there has to be some point for the red flecks. Some corruption. (Might happen for lerasium spikes...)

It could be one of two things (Or more, unsaid things!):

1. The investiture inside the Trellium is corrupting the scalpel of Ruin's investiture. This could be interesting, as it would mean it is not necessarily end negative anymore... (Because of that, though, I don't think it is very likely)

2. The hemalurgic charge is turning into Ruin's investiture, which in turn corrupts the Trellium.

I also considered it being a sort of Nightblood situation, where it started out not a highly invested metal, but was turned into a magic metal later. Not really explained well - The metal is potentially a hemalurgic spike that Autonomy then corrupted, is what I mean.

 

Another thing of note is that Trellium is silvery with a red cast, and red dots. Atium is silvery.

 

 

Random thought I had. Guys, what if the reason Autonomy contradicts herself is because she has some form of DID?

[Trusk'our he/him]

2 hours ago, Ookla the Dragonslayer said:

Mmmmhhhhh good points. But still, there has to be some point for the red flecks. Some corruption. (Might happen for lerasium spikes...)

. . . . . 

2. The hemalurgic charge is turning into Ruin's investiture, which in turn corrupts the Trellium.

Sounds quite plausible to me. Godmetals are a form of Investiture with specific Invested abilities hardwritten into them, so suddenly re-keying them to a Hemalurgic attribute (like how Feruchemical Investiture can re-key a Metalmind's Allomantic effect) could likely count as a form of Cosmere corruption. 

If this is the case then other Godmetals used in Hemalurgy (maybe Feruchemy too?) should have corruption in them too.

It's also worth mentioning that Trellium seems to be intentionally designed by an entity (almost certainly Auto herself) to interact with Hemalurgy and Harmony the way it does. 

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/74-shadows-of-self-san-jose-signing/#e7773

Questioner

I wanted to ask about Paalm’s spike. Is it that one specifically that allowed her to hide from Harmony or would it happen with any sort of...?

Brandon Sanderson

It was because she was not using one out of any metal that he knew, was a big part of it. She couldn't have done that with any spike. Taking one out helped a bit, but a non-Harmony spike it had to be… What you’re seeing there is a weird hack of the magic system intentionally that was built to do that.

As such, the corruption effect on them could also be from Autonomy's direct tinkering. 

2 hours ago, Ookla the Dragonslayer said:

Another thing of note is that Trellium is silvery with a red cast, and red dots. Atium is silvery.

I think a lot of metals can count as silvery, but I think this is still a good thought.

Trellium has been shown functioning as both a power-stealing spike (Paalm and the Set) and as an attribute-stealing spike (Chimera).

Given that the other metals we know of, including Godmetals, only take one or the other- even if they can take any or all of one category- I find it suspicious that Trellium can affect seemingly any. 

There's a WoB that says that the Trellium used could be an alloy, so Auto stealing a bit of Ruin and/Preservation to create alloyed metals that belong to her (corrupting them in the process potentially) makes more sense. Then differing alloys of Trellium and Ruin/Preservation could steal different things.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/398-prague-signing/#e13226

Questioner

Is trellium, the metal that Paalm uses, an alloy of atium or any other god metal.

Brandon Sanderson

Is the metal that is being used a god metal? It is at least a god metal hybrid. There is a god metal component to it.

This might also help explain why Wax's experiment with Trellium yielded Lerasium while others seemingly don't. Perhaps the spike he used was alloyed with Atium or Lerasium, changing the effect of the split.

Autonomy would still have to get her mits on some of Harmony's Investiture to do all this, but given how the Mists diffuse across Scadrial I don't think it's that implausible. 

2 hours ago, Ookla the Dragonslayer said:

Random thought I had. Guys, what if the reason Autonomy contradicts herself is because she has some form of DID?

We don't know for sure, but I personally think it's likely. 

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/395-icon-2019/#e13090

Doombrigade (paraphrased)

If an individual has a mental sickness, such as multiple personalities, can that affect a Shard's intent if picked up by him or her?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, that is possible.

Doombrigade (paraphrased)

Is it possible that Autonomy is one such, and has multiple personalities?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

RAFO.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/34-arcanum-unbounded-seattle-signing/#e5721

Questioner

The thing I wanted to ask you about was in White Sand, it's actually on the map, it is...(pointing at map) is this Autonomy, or Bavadin?

Brandon Sanderson

Hehehe, that is a very good guess.....that is very very sharply guessed...

Questioner

Yeah, coz, I really, I just like kind of the idea of the Shards and stuff, and I guess I want to learn more about what they look like and, kind of their personalities and stuff.

Brandon Sanderson

Bavadin's a hard one, because what does Bavadin look like? Bavadin looks like what she feels like looking like, or what he feels like looking like, depending upon the day.

Or maybe she just likes cosplay, kind of like some Kandra. 

Edited December 9, 2024 by Trusk'our