rhythm of war (RoW spoilers) Last minute theory on Kaladin's eyes

[Shadow of Electrum he/him]

I was relistening to the chapter 108, where Kaladin goes into a frenzy after Teft's death. Venli mentions that his eyes go yellow/red, like something she's seen before. As far as I'm aware, everyone assumes this is Odium doing something to Kaladin, and in some ways this makes sense. What doesn't make sense to me is the motivation. Why would Odium influence Kaladin in this way, especially considering the outcome? I know Odium had intentions to corrupt Kaladin if he could, but considering how the corruption of Amaram's army went, I'm not entirely sure that's what's happening. For one, that happened a lot faster than what was happening with Kaladin. That might have been due to the presence of the thrill and the everstorm, but we know that Odium definitely had a connection through Moash and an opening to affect Kaladin with how cracked his soul must be. In addition to this, his eyes were red AND yellow. Not pure red like every other instance, but also yellow. We know yellow is associated with Odium, but it seems a stretch to say that Odium is an influence here. The partial red might be an indication of that, but I think it's something else. The last minute theory I came up with is that Kaladin is tapping into another MOI here. We know that the passions as a religion are derived from Odium, and they always mention this one idea. The idea that someone "most passionate" has access to great abilities. We see Queen Fen mention this with the oathgate, and multiple other people and singers convey that having intense passion for an outcome will make it more likely to happen. What if this is all in reference to an old Odium derived MOI? We don't know a lot about voidbinding or what kind of MOIs were present on Ashen, so I believe it's possible that another MOI might be at play. I think this could also explain the eye color. The yellow indicates that the investiture is being accessed in a more natural way, and that would certainly be the case if Kaladin is using some sort of "passion" system. The red could be a sort of interference with his bond, as red is of corruption, not Odium specifically. 

So altogether, my theory is that Kaladin, through his intense grief and hatred, unknowingly tapped into this "passionate" system and manifested combat abilities beyond his typical limits for a short time. I don't fully believe in this theory but it's an interesting idea I came up with. I don't seem to be very good at this sort of thing but I still like to share ideas when I think I might be onto something. I'm not entirely sure if we'll get an answer to this in Stormlight 5, but either way I am extremely excited for tomorrow, as that's when the book comes out for me.

Edited December 6, 2024 by Shadow of Electrum
I accidentally wrote Teft instead of Moash because my stupid brain mixes up their names sometimes. Also other typos

[OOKLA_the LIV She/They/Lesbian/hungry]

This is kinda interesting.

I have been toying with the idea that the yellow could be the influence of both odium and cultivation.

Red and Green, the colors of odium and cultivation, when combined at equal strengths, often create a yellow hue. Kaladin at this moment is struggling with his need to... well, destroy and hate and k!ll the fused, mixed with his fear of Lirin being executed. He wanted to save his father, at least there had to be some element of that, even if he ended up, yknow, jumping off of the tower. That could be because Odium ´ s influence won out over Cultivations, like how Venli says it was red and yellow. that would mean less cultivation, more odium. 

I am probably wrong, but i felt like I should post it here before Wind and Truth comes out. just in case.

[KnightSkye Reforged They/Them]

Interesting! 
I had always assumed that it was Kaladin reaching through his connection to Odium to use voidlight the same way Venli does, similar to how Lift uses Lifelight because of her connection to Cultivation. 
I also think that red is more corrupted investiture than just Odium*, and that that is why it was yellow/red, because it was pure Odium investiture reaching out to Kal through the connection, since the vessel was loosing control of the power at the time.

*spoiler for Wax and Wayne

Spoiler

Because of Autonomy's investiture being red too.

 

[Treamayne]

8 hours ago, Shadow of Electrum said:

I was relistening to the chapter 108, where Kaladin goes into a frenzy after Teft's death.

Please note that your thread title references Words of Radiance, not Rhythm of War.

8 hours ago, Shadow of Electrum said:

I know Odium had intentions to corrupt Kaladin if he could, but considering how the corruption of Amaram's army went, I'm not entirely sure that's what's happening.

Amaram's army wasn't corrupted - Amaram was. The Army was just being influenced by Nergaoul into fighting blindly based on Amaram's direction.

OB Ch 119:

Spoiler

“Shallan, we don’t have an army yet,” Dalinar said. “Lightweave one up for us, and keep these soldiers busy. They’re consumed by a bloodlust that I suspect will make them easier to distract.

 

8 hours ago, Shadow of Electrum said:

but we know that Odium definitely had a connection through teft and an opening to affect Kaladin with how cracked his soul must be.

Do you mean Moash, not Teft?

8 hours ago, Shadow of Electrum said:

The last minute theory I came up with is that Kaladin is tapping into another MOI here.

Except we know by WoB that it is something "very dangerous"

Spoiler

Questioner

Kaladin's fight with the [Pursuer], his eyes are described glowing a color not quite the same as usual for corrupted Investiture. Is this supposed to be that he's burning a different Light?

Brandon Sanderson

No, it’s more he's on the border of some dangerous stuff.

Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021)

 

 

[Shadow of Electrum he/him]

35 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Please note that your thread title references Words of Radiance, not Rhythm of War.

Thanks for the heads up! I'm gonna fix that as soon as I figure out how, but for now I have set the header tag to be Rhythm of War to convey that better.

38 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Do you mean Moash, not Teft?

Also gonna fix this...

39 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Amaram's army wasn't corrupted - Amaram was. The Army was just being influenced by Nergaoul into fighting blindly based on Amaram's direction.

I know that the army was mostly influenced by Nergaoul, but I had assumed that Odium had more influence over them/corrupted them by the glowing red eyes and the comments of nearby fused praising him for figuring out 'how to corrupt humans' as they put it. In any case, I think my point still stands as Amaram was still corrupted instantly to Odium's side, potentially indicating that Kaladin was going through a different process.

43 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Except we know by WoB that it is something "very dangerous"

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. If you just mean to add to the conversation by saying like "we also know that this is something dangerous", I agree that this is something interesting to note, but the way it's worded comes off as a non sequitur to me. In another line of thinking, 'Except' makes me think this WoB somehow contradicts my theory but I'm not sure that it does. "dangerous stuff" is extremely vague, and the wording leads me to believe that he is accessing something outside of the surges since the WoB also says it's not just another form of light. I think this opens up the opportunity for another MOI, if that isn't confirmation bias, especially considering that we don't have a clear picture of every MOI on Roshar and or Ashen in this case. In any case I appreciate your reply!

[Treamayne]

6 hours ago, Shadow of Electrum said:

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. If you just mean to add to the conversation by saying like "we also know that this is something dangerous", I agree that this is something interesting to note, but the way it's worded comes off as a non sequitur to me. In another line of thinking, 'Except' makes me think this WoB somehow contradicts my theory but I'm not sure that it does. "dangerous stuff" is extremely vague, and the wording leads me to believe that he is accessing something outside of the surges since the WoB also says it's not just another form of light. I think this opens up the opportunity for another MOI, if that isn't confirmation bias, especially considering that we don't have a clear picture of every MOI on Roshar and or Ashen in this case. In any case I appreciate your reply!

My point was that I doubt Brandon would consider or reference just an Odium/Passion MoI as "dangerous" - it's far more likely this was the precipice of Odium trying to make Kaladin his Champion. The bond began, this happened, then the process was stopped by Dalinar's intervention and Kaladin swaering the Fourth Oath. Especially since it is only a few chapters before Odium is all huffy about "losing my champion again."

The scene with the eyes is Ch 106

RoW Ch 113:

Spoiler

You should not tempt me today, Taravangian! Odium thundered. I have lost my champion AGAIN, and now I am bound by an agreement I do not want. How do they know how to move against me? HAVE YOU BETRAYED ME, TARAVANGIAN?

There is not enough data to know for sure - but I find a new, non-foreshadowed, random MoI to be far less likely than an ongoing subplot that has been a part of the entire book. I'm sorry.

6 hours ago, Shadow of Electrum said:

I'm gonna fix that as soon as I figure out how, but for now I have set the header tag to be Rhythm of War to convey that better.

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