Cheating Death With Spikes

[Trusk'our he/him]

When a person dies in the Cosmere, they pop into the Cognitive Realm briefly before passing into the Beyond. If they're Invested, such as if they bore Hemalurgic spikes, they last longer. 

So, what if you were a Hemalurgist who died, but wanted to continue living? Could you pick up the Cognitive Aspect of one of your corpse's spikes to bind yourself to the Physical Realm? Maybe similar to how Kelsier regained his body.

Or, maybe if that doesn't work, could you take the Cognitive manifestation of a non-Invested spike on your personal to spike a Spren or Shade (nearby in the Cognitive Realm) and give yourself their Investiture or Realmatic anchor to become a Cognitive Shadow?

Assuming option #2 can work, what if a Shardic Vessel decided to visit the Hemalurgist as they faded, then the Hemalurgist made a snap decision and stabbed them with a spike, ripping off some power to staple onto themselves, kind of like what Taravangian did to Odium with Nightblood. I know Sazed likes to visit those on their way to the Beyond, which would make him particularly susceptible to this tactic (though admittedly banking on being able to spike a literal Shardic Vessel seems unwise in general).

Most interestingly, I wonder, if a Hemalurgist died while flaring electrum (probably hoping to avoid death in the first place) if they could use the extra burst of vision (kind of like Kelsier when he died to Rashek) to forsee these possibilities to make such attempts realistically plausible- it's unlikely that they'd intuitively know any of these on their own, so having a nudge from the SR would be helpful. If they decided to spike a Vessel, they'd even get some brief protection from their future sight, making that plan more viable. 

These plans all count on being able to charge and use a Hemalurgic spike through its Cognitive Aspect alone though, which isn't confirmed to be possible. So there's a jury still out on that.

Edited October 3, 2024 by Trusk'our

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

3 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

When a person dies in the Cosmere, they pop into the Cognitive Realm briefly before passing into the Beyond. If they're Invested, such as if they bore Hemalurgic spikes, they last longer. 

So, what if you were a Hemalurgist who died, but wanted to continue living? Could you pick up the Cognitive Aspect of one of your corpse's spikes to bind yourself to the Physical Realm? Maybe similar to how Kelsier regained his body.

Or, maybe if that doesn't work, could you take the Cognitive manifestation of a non-Invested spike on your personal to spike a Spren or Shade (nearby in the Cognitive Realm) and give yourself their Investiture or Realmatic anchor to become a Cognitive Shadow?

Assuming option #2 can work, what if a Shardic Vessel decided to visit the Hemalurgist as they faded, then the Hemalurgist made a snap decision and stabbed them with a spike, ripping off some power to staple onto themselves, kind of like what Taravangian did to Odium with Nightblood. I know Sazed likes to visit those on their way to the Beyond, which would make him particularly susceptible to this tactic (though admittedly banking on being able to spike a literal Shardic Vessel seems unwise in general).

Most interestingly, I wonder, if a Hemalurgist died while flaring electrum (probably hoping to avoid death in the first place) if they could use the extra burst of vision (kind of like Kelsier when he died to Rashek) to forsee these possibilities to make such attempts realistically plausible- it's unlikely that they'd intuitively know any of these on their own, so having a nudge from the SR would be helpful. If they decided to spike a Vessel, they'd even get some brief protection from their future sight, making that plan more viable. 

These plans all count on being able to charge and use a Hemalurgic spike through its Cognitive Aspect alone though, which isn't confirmed to be possible. So there's a jury still out on that.

For better or worse...If there's a way to staple a human consciousness onto a machine, it is definitely via hemalurgy. What kind of immortality one would get for stabbing themselves in the heart under an extreme electrum burn while facing certain death is...anyone's guess, but yeah, I feel like that should be totally possible...Quality might be pretty terrible to begin with...buuuuut...kelsier was almost totally driven insane while trapped in the well, so that shouldn't come as a surprise. It's something to build off of though! (Again, assuming the process doesn't drive one permanently mad or so dissociated that their memories go blank.)

[Trusk'our he/him]

3 minutes ago, hwiles said:

For better or worse...If there's a way to staple a human consciousness onto a machine, it is definitely via hemalurgy. What kind of immortality one would get for stabbing themselves in the heart under an extreme electrum burn while facing certain death is...anyone's guess, but yeah, I feel like that should be totally possible...

Ooo, that makes me wonder, instead of relying on being able to use a Hemalurgic spike with only the resources of the Cognitive Realm, if you are mortally wounded you could maybe spike yourself into something capable of surviving, as you would get a boost to your electrum sight. Maybe something that's just really, really physically resilient. 

Wouldn't be human anymore, but it might work to survive. 

Also, I agreed: if Hemalurgy can staple a Spiritweb to a body, it can be used in some way to plug a human consciousness into a machine. 

 

[therunner he/him]

I think neither of the options would work, Cognitive manifestations are not the object themselves.
I.e. cognitive manifestation of spike is not spike itself.

You can manifest it into presumably actual physical object (like what spren on Roshar do), but that requires Investiture.

[Trusk'our he/him]

11 hours ago, therunner said:

I think neither of the options would work, Cognitive manifestations are not the object themselves.
I.e. cognitive manifestation of spike is not spike itself.

Yeah, that's probably true.

It would make for a cool scene, where a person is supposed to die but they cheat and come back anyway, but it's rather unlikely, I'll admit. 

[Sophrosyne he/him]

Serious Q Trusk'our How much do you know about Hemolurgy at this point? I swear i must be ALL of it.

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, Sophrosyne said:

Serious Q Trusk'our How much do you know about Hemolurgy at this point? I swear i must be ALL of it.

I mean, I know a decent amount I'd say simply by virtue of how much I dwell on it and what scenarios it could be seen used effectively, but there's a lot I don't know yet.

For example, I still don't fully understand Spiritwebs or the spiritual attributes of Hemalurgy and Feruchemy, I don't know for sure whether more spikes always equals the same exposure to the Flaw, I don't know to what extent attribute spikes can be imposed on humans while retaining their humanity, I don't know the BEU capacity of each spike size, power, or attribute, I don't know exactly why power spikes function so differently than attribute spikes, I don't know if Bindpoints in certain quadrants are truly interchangeable with each other, still don't know how Kandra Blessings are unique, etc.

Basically, I have more questions than answers a lot of the time.

We probably won't know these until Brandon puts them in a book, but I'm clearly not afraid to put out (sometimes half-baked) hypothesese to get input from others.

Still learning more, but that's the fun part.

Edited October 8, 2024 by Trusk'our

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

20 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

...

Basically, I have more questions than answers a lot of the time.

...

It really does show, you're obviously a natural born Inquisitor 

(Meaning that in the nicest way possible)

As long as you don't go on any rampage in real life, keep up the good work!

[Trusk'our he/him]

2 minutes ago, hwiles said:

It really does show, you're obviously a natural born Inquisitor 

(Meaning that in the nicest way possible)

As long as you don't go on any rampage in real life, keep up the good work!

I'll try to keep my Ruin-induced madness to a minimum 

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

5 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

I'll try to keep my Ruin-induced madness to a minimum 

That's all we can ask.