Question about dialogue from Ironeyes in TLM

[EdgedancerJacob he/him]

I have a question about a line from Marsh in TLM:
 

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"So far, I do not believe they've learned the secret to Compounding via Hemalurgy. Identity contamination prevents it - that is our only saving grace. If they could do that ... Or, Lord if they get atium, or lerasium.." Pg. 199 (Hardcover)

What exactly is he implying here? Is he saying that the Set hasn't used Hemalurgy to create a compounding Metalborn? And what does Identity have to do with it in this case?

[Treamayne]

4 hours ago, EdgedancerJacob said:

I have a question about a line from Marsh in TLM:
 

What exactly is he implying here? Is he saying that the Set hasn't used Hemalurgy to create a compounding Metalborn? And what does Identity have to do with it in this case?

Inquisitors in Era 1 (like Marsh) could learn to compound if they had the Allomantic and Ferucemical powers for the same metal. That is no longer possible after Harmony made some "changes" (possibly unintentionally) post-Hero of Ages. In Era 1, Ruin was pushing the fabric of Scadrial to make things possible that should not have been (like more spikes, and compounding with spikes). But, when Harmony fixed that imbalance (but did not change Marsh himself, as the last old-style Inquisitor) it no longer became possible (or at least without jumping through some hoops). Each Hemalurgic Spike will contain a portion of the "donor's" Identity. That's why a Hemalurgist would be able to access a Feruchemical Metal Mind made by the Donor. However, this also means that the Allomantic and Feruchemical Identity for a single metal would have slighly different Identities (Hemalurgist + Donor A in one, and Hemalurgist+Donor B in the other) which makes compounding with those two abilities no longer feasible (if done normally). 

Coppermind and TLM Ars Arcanum:

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There is a maximum number of spikes a person can have before causing issues of mental and/or physical limitations.^[27][28] The number of spikes a person can take has been reduced since Ruin was merged with Preservation. If too many spikes are added, the soul stops gaining powers. Compounding is also inaccessible, under normal methods, to any Hemalurgist made after the Shards merged.^[29][27] There are ways to bypass this limitation, but said ways are currently unknown. This relates to the nature of Ruin's subservience to Preservation in the current dual vessel of Harmony and something known as "Identity contamination".^[29][27]

This was likely done without a conscious decision by Harmony, and more of a byproduct of Ruin no longer pushing on the fabric of Scadrial.^[27]

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Instead, I believe this is the nature of souls (read: the Invested portion of a person’s nature) and their balance with the cosmere. In the ancient days, Ruin was pushing hard on the fabric of Scadrial, leaking into spiritwebs through any method possible. Causing souls to decay faster, to accept more spikes than they should have been able to, and leaving the resulting person burdened beyond what was reasonable.

At any rate, the end result is a limit on the number of spikes a person can hold without external intervention. And, most key, Compounding seems beyond the abilities of any Hemalurgist created in this more modern era. The secret to cracking why this is, and how to circumvent it, could be of utmost importance to those watching Hemalurgy and its (presumed) danger to the cosmere as a whole.

WoB:

Spoiler

Lucadaw

If someone used Hemalurgy to take someones Feruchemical abilities would they be able to use that persons personal metalminds? Most relevantly perhaps to take that person's knowledge from their copperminds?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

<Edited for length and relevance>

Worldbuilders AMA (Dec. 7, 2015)

 

Hope that helps

Edited July 16, 2024 by Treamayne

[EdgedancerJacob he/him]

Thanks as always, @Treamayne

[FireflyGuardian he/him]

On 7/16/2024 at 12:25 PM, Treamayne said:

However, this also means that the Allomantic and Feruchemical Identity for a single metal would have slighly different Identities (Hemalurgist + Donor A in one, and Hemalurgist+Donor B in the other) which makes compounding with those two abilities no longer feasible (if done normally). 

Therefore, if you were to stab a couple people who have Blanked Identities, could you theoretically Compound? Would that remove the Identity contamination? I don't really know enough about Identity and spikes.

[Treamayne]

35 minutes ago, FireflyGuardian said:

Therefore, if you were to stab a couple people who have Blanked Identities, could you theoretically Compound? Would that remove the Identity contamination? I don't really know enough about Identity and spikes.

This is a popular fan theory, but Brandon has RAFOed all WoBs on Identity until he deals with it in the books.

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cvdks

Could the spear used to kill Kelsier be used as an Identity spike?

Brandon Sanderson

I'm RAFOing most questions about Identity right now. (Sorry.)

#SandersonChat Twitter Q&A with Audible.com (Feb. 4, 2016)

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Lucadaw

If someone used Hemalurgy to take someones Feruchemical abilities would they be able to use that persons personal metalminds? Most relevantly perhaps to take that person's knowledge from their copperminds?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Lucadaw

If someone stored their identity in an aluminium metalmind, then had their powers and metalminds stolen via Hemalurgy, then the person who took the powers used the aluminium metalmind to draw out the first persons identity would it permanently overwrite their personality with the original persons ? ( would kind of be a long winded way of stealing someone else's body and becoming immortal )

Brandon Sanderson

All Identity questions are a RAFO until I deal with it more in the books. (Sorry.)

WeiryWriter (in response to the first answer)

If the spike granting Feruchemy were to be reforged/split into two distinct spikes which are then implanted into two different people, could those two people "share" a metalmind (as in actually be able to tap something the other stored and vice versa?).

Brandon Sanderson

It's complicated, but no.

There would be too much of the other person mixed in. Both could use the metalminds of the person the Feruchemy was stolen from, but when they made their own, their own Identity would "muddy" the creation.

Worldbuilders AMA (Dec. 7, 2015)