Aoibheann she/her Posted July 5, 2024 Posted July 5, 2024 During RoW, Veil contacts Mraize using the seon cube and has a severe deja vu experience. The resurfacing memories force Veil to fade to Shallan, but Shallan loses her ability to understand speech and Veil has to take over to complete the conversation. Mraize mentions conditioning to reinforce the behavior you want. Quote "... have been careful," Mraize was saying, "not to attract attention in the communication?" "I..." Veil said. "Of course I did this in secret. You know me better than that." What had he been saying before? She'd missed it entirely. "It is always good," he said, "to reinforce the behavior you want, little knife. In people as in axehounds. Your report?" RoW pg 405 Up to this point, Veil has been excited by the Ghostbloods and generally wants to follow Mraize's orders. This interaction seems to change her mind about moving forward with the Ghostbloods. Later in RoW, Radiant mentions Veil's experience spying: Quote Radiant tapped the top of Shallan's sketchpad with her pencil, trying to judge whether this woman was lying. But this was Veil's area of expertise. She'd spent over a decade being a spy. Be careful, Shallan throught. Remember that decade of experience is imagined. True. It was hard to remember. Yeah... Veil thought. My empty past... being nothing back then... unnerves me. RoW pg 433 So really, Veil does have a decade of experience as a spy. She was a spy for the Ghostbloods as a child, and repressed the memory, because it led to the death of her mother. Thaidakar has had no issue in the past with recruiting (useful) children to use them. The more unhinged version we are seeing now, would see no issue with it. It also explains Mraize's fascination when he realizes that Shallan and Veil are one and the same. 9
CtrlAltDepressed Posted July 11, 2024 Posted July 11, 2024 On 7/5/2024 at 6:50 PM, Aoibheann said: So really, Veil does have a decade of experience as a spy. She was a spy for the Ghostbloods as a child, and repressed the memory, because it led to the death of her mother. Thaidakar has had no issue in the past with recruiting (useful) children to use them. The more unhinged version we are seeing now, would see no issue with it. It also explains Mraize's fascination when he realizes that Shallan and Veil are one and the same. I love this theory! I agree. The fact that Mraize calls her little knife from their first meeting tells me that he knew her before and she is repressing the memory. We know for sure that we haven't gotten the full story on her Mothers death and I think Shallan as a baby Ghostblood makes a lot of sense to fill in some of those gaps. 3
Aoibheann she/her Posted July 12, 2024 Author Posted July 12, 2024 I haven't looked back at WoR to see when Mraize starts referring to her as "little knife". Is it before he realized she is Shallan?
coolsnow7 Posted July 17, 2024 Posted July 17, 2024 The one thing missing is why she doesn’t have a tattoo/why she needs to be reinitiated. And it’s a pretty big hole. I personally like the “Shallan is Chana” theory in which case a) the first decade of her life being a sham fits (because her whole Shallan persona is made up) and b) she had plenty of time to learn all the spying that Veil knows. And c) her joining the Ghostbloods can work too. But with Shallan just being Shallan, it’s harder to make work.
Aoibheann she/her Posted July 17, 2024 Author Posted July 17, 2024 I believe that at the end of WoR, Mraize says she's a member. Only after Shallan makes it clear she doesn't think she is does he start creating hoops for her to jump through. Having a child get a tattoo would be a bit excessive. Shallan was 11 when her mother died.
Light In the Darkness Posted October 31, 2024 Posted October 31, 2024 I don't think I agree with this one, but I suppose it's possible. On 7/16/2024 at 7:49 PM, coolsnow7 said: the first decade of her life being a sham fits What do you mean by this? Veil saying the decade of experience is made up is about Veil's fake past, not Shallan's youth (as far as I can tell).
coolsnow7 Posted October 31, 2024 Posted October 31, 2024 (edited) 17 hours ago, Light In the Darkness said: I don't think I agree with this one, but I suppose it's possible. What do you mean by this? Veil saying the decade of experience is made up is about Veil's fake past, not Shallan's youth (as far as I can tell). There is plenty of room for more revelations. We have a whole book (and then the back 5) ahead of us. Don’t skate to where the puck is, skate to where it’s going to be. Anyway based on how the Ghostbloods meeting is going - and how Mraize doesn’t know Shallan as well as he thinks he does - I’m getting vibes that are counter to this theory. Edited October 31, 2024 by coolsnow7
JohnnyKaizen he/him Posted November 21, 2024 Posted November 21, 2024 On 7/5/2024 at 6:50 PM, Aoibheann said: During RoW, Veil contacts Mraize using the seon cube and has a severe deja vu experience. The resurfacing memories force Veil to fade to Shallan, but Shallan loses her ability to understand speech and Veil has to take over to complete the conversation. Mraize mentions conditioning to reinforce the behavior you want. Up to this point, Veil has been excited by the Ghostbloods and generally wants to follow Mraize's orders. This interaction seems to change her mind about moving forward with the Ghostbloods. Later in RoW, Radiant mentions Veil's experience spying: So really, Veil does have a decade of experience as a spy. She was a spy for the Ghostbloods as a child, and repressed the memory, because it led to the death of her mother. Thaidakar has had no issue in the past with recruiting (useful) children to use them. The more unhinged version we are seeing now, would see no issue with it. It also explains Mraize's fascination when he realizes that Shallan and Veil are one and the same. First off, big applause for this theory. I love it for many reasons. On 7/16/2024 at 9:49 PM, coolsnow7 said: The one thing missing is why she doesn’t have a tattoo/why she needs to be reinitiated. And it’s a pretty big hole. I personally like the “Shallan is Chana” theory in which case a) the first decade of her life being a sham fits (because her whole Shallan persona is made up) and b) she had plenty of time to learn all the spying that Veil knows. And c) her joining the Ghostbloods can work too. But with Shallan just being Shallan, it’s harder to make work. My first thought is that Shallan being a Lightweaver would have negated any tattoo she would have gotten. But my second more fun thought (IMO anyway) is that she does have a Ghostblood tattoo, on her face...hidden amongst her freckles...and that was one of the things that made Hoid jump when he looked at her at the Fair. 2
Mattel Posted November 24, 2024 Posted November 24, 2024 Another thing that also fits into this is that Pattern has frequently said something along the lines of: I was attracted by your lies mmmmm. This is important because Shallan's first Spren, Testament, could possibly have been attracted by similar "lies," suggesting that yes, Veil was alive back then. We have been given no answers for why Testament chose a what, 12 year old child? to be their radiant. So, yeah, I really like this theory, @Aoibheann.
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