Honor + Odium = War? An alternative

[coolsnow7]

As we all know, the intent of a shard is subject to the interpretation of the bearer. So while the intent we got for Honor + Odium was War, some adjacent concepts might work as well.

Let’s review some facts about Szeth:

- he really is devoted to Dalinar and would feel quite lost without him 

- he is at the edge of sanity

- Taravangian continues to manipulate him and he’s not a fan - in fact successfully exploiting him to ascend to divinity

- Brandon seems to be foreshadowing (heavily) that Taravangian’s manipulation of Szeth is coming to a head. Especially now that Taravangian is Odium, I expect this to be a major issue in book 5.

Why do I bring Szeth up? Because I think a natural alternative to War is Vengeance. I’m not sure exactly how it would work, but I could see Book 5 ending with some kind of Shardic Intent shuffling, whereby Taravangian kills Dalinar, gets (the heretofore unspecified) combination of Cultivation and Odium, someone else (Navani?) gets Honor + Cultivation, and Szeth ascends to become Vengeance - setting him up to hunt Taravangian down across the Cosmere in Revenge for what he did to Dalinar.

 

(Another alternative is that this is the spin Szeth puts on the Honor shard. I’m not in a position to ask Brandon questions for WoBs, but if someone out there is, I strongly recommend asking whether Vengeance would be an intent more suited to Honor+Odium or Honor alone - if he RAFOs then we know we’re on to something.)

[Sveths11thtoe]

I think it's pretty unlikely any shard changes at the end of book 5 other than Honor being revived and taken up by someone who is not Taravangian. This is mainly because I dont think Todium is just going to be around in that form for one book and I think Cultivation is going to be very important in the back half with Lift being grown up so I don't think she changes yet either.

In terms of Vengeance being the intent of Honor and Odium, I think that makes a lot of sense, at least more than war. The way I first read the light of those two being warlight was just that those two had been at war for so long that their rhythm on Roshar reflected their eternal war (probably related to connection in some way), not that this would be their combined intent. Especially considering I really doubt the cultivation+Honor intent would be 'Tower' based on their light being called that. Vengeance as representing holding to promises/oaths and 'God's divine hatred' combined makes a lot of sense to me.

I do think it's unlikely the ending of book 5 involves the combination of shards, as Brandon already ended one series that way.

[Quantus]

3 hours ago, Sveths11thtoe said:

I think it's pretty unlikely any shard changes at the end of book 5 other than Honor being revived and taken up by someone who is not Taravangian. This is mainly because I dont think Todium is just going to be around in that form for one book and I think Cultivation is going to be very important in the back half with Lift being grown up so I don't think she changes yet either.

Alternatively, consider the chaos of the back half if Cultivation bites it earlier than she'd planned and leaves Todium as the only active Shard on Roshar....

3 hours ago, Sveths11thtoe said:

In terms of Vengeance being the intent of Honor and Odium, I think that makes a lot of sense, at least more than war. The way I first read the light of those two being warlight was just that those two had been at war for so long that their rhythm on Roshar reflected their eternal war (probably related to connection in some way), not that this would be their combined intent.

I think War makes sense as the outcome of Honor and (negative) Passions running amuck together.  Vengeance for for the same reasons, and I think it's the same Individual vs Community perspective that separates Tanavast's concept of Honor from Unity that is emerging now.  Had Odium Invested fully in the planet before Tanavast Died and Honor shattered, it might have turned out differently.

3 hours ago, Sveths11thtoe said:

Especially considering I really doubt the cultivation+Honor intent would be 'Tower' based on their light being called that. Vengeance as representing holding to promises/oaths and 'God's divine hatred' combined makes a lot of sense to me.

I often see Civilization or Science or sometimes Progress offered as alternatives.