Synergy of awakening and copper "act as my..."

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

More shower thoughts of awakening and synergies. Copper feruchemy. I used to think that zinc was the better option for synergy with awakening as you might be able to think through a lot more of a command for visualization. But now I am leaning more towards copper. Mostly in this... 

Is it possible to day dream and store memories in copper. Visualization of being heroic and pulling off some amazing feats. Then... store the memory of you day dreaming. These heroic feats could become your reality. The commands involving "as my" leave a lot of room for flexibility in what awakened materials can do and copper Ferring's may have an edge in this. 

If copper compounding could make these fake visualizations more vivid and realistic then it would only be more potent. 

If you combined that with identity alteration it may prove even more potent, but for now I am mostly curious if a copper Ferring who has leaned into the ability to become the most pathological of liars ever... to the point where they have zero clue they are lying because they simply store all memories of creating these memories... Wouldn't they be able to craft up a set of lengthened limbs that fight for him better than he can fight himself? 

I know we don't know exactly what copper compounding does. In the MAG one of the stunts is referred to as "stitched memories" where you store multiple eye witness accounts of an event and then compound them to give a vivid and more accurate view of the scene. Obviously lies in this case could ruin the copper compounders vision but what if they were the ones telling the lies to themselves and were able to turn that into the visualization they use? 

Dream up and vividly describe an epic training sequence and a fight scene or two from a fighter... even one with false awakened ropes... then store all of those memories. Store your memories of making up those memories and then tap them or compound them into your mind while storing all memories of yourself compounding or tapping those memories. Now the memories exist in your mind as if they were real and you don't remember fabricating the entire lie. When you go to use that awakening command and have the perfect visualization your intent would not be plagued by any deceit or ill intent because you genuinely believe that these super vivid memories are of yourself doing these things. 

For a bonus, if a copper Ferring had great artistic abilities or described all of these things as happening from first person it would amplify that imagery even more. 

 

[Duxredux he/him]

So... help me understand why you think someone daydreaming of epic fight scenes who doesn't have any real combat experience or training would fight better than someone properly trained? Awakened objects still have to obey physics and improper visualization even with proper Intent was a failure point for Vivenna asking a cup to fetch a cup of tea. Dramatic flourishes and twirls, pauses for witty banter, and many of the things that make cinematic fights fun are often bad ideas. In fact, be wary of imitating any fantasized fight scene not choreographed by a professional.

So... personal untrained daydream? I wouldn't trust my life to it. Store hours of watching professional fighters, martial artists, etc. as an armchair enthusiast? Hours of HEMA fighting played first at 0.5 speed to learn the proper form then 1.25 speed for the final visualization? Maybe with some experimentation and live tests. The biggest unknown is finding the right Command phrase, but it seems plausible. The "Fight for me as if you were me" Command may be a shortcut to reduce the load on Awakener rather than trying to visualize decades of experience. F-Copper looks like it lets you withdraw more information than can naturally be recalled in a single moment (Sazed at the end of HoA while Ascending so not the best example and he needed the expanded mind of a Shard to retain it all), so you may be able to briefly withdraw hours upon hours of memories crisply, Awaken the object, then archive the memories. Slight tweak to your idea that feels more viable.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

5 hours ago, Duxredux said:

So... help me understand why you think someone daydreaming of epic fight scenes who doesn't have any real combat experience or training would fight better than someone properly trained? Awakened objects still have to obey physics and improper visualization even with proper Intent was a failure point for Vivenna asking a cup to fetch a cup of tea. Dramatic flourishes and twirls, pauses for witty banter, and many of the things that make cinematic fights fun are often bad ideas. In fact, be wary of imitating any fantasized fight scene not choreographed by a professional.

So... personal untrained daydream? I wouldn't trust my life to it. Store hours of watching professional fighters, martial artists, etc. as an armchair enthusiast? Hours of HEMA fighting played first at 0.5 speed to learn the proper form then 1.25 speed for the final visualization? Maybe with some experimentation and live tests. The biggest unknown is finding the right Command phrase, but it seems plausible. The "Fight for me as if you were me" Command may be a shortcut to reduce the load on Awakener rather than trying to visualize decades of experience. F-Copper looks like it lets you withdraw more information than can naturally be recalled in a single moment (Sazed at the end of HoA while Ascending so not the best example and he needed the expanded mind of a Shard to retain it all), so you may be able to briefly withdraw hours upon hours of memories crisply, Awaken the object, then archive the memories. Slight tweak to your idea that feels more viable.

I think I may have not illustrated the idea very well... hence the importance of imagery. 

I am not looking to break physics. I am not looking to turn a guy who has never worked out a day in his life into a fighter like Kaladin, nor am I hoping to break physics more than awakening already does. 

I'm trying to use copper to create a false set of imagery in the form of someone who suddenly truly envisions themselves as doing those things and that allowing the awakening to do them. You example of watching hema at 1.25x speed is a much better illustration of what I have in mind than picturing someone with a cape that allows flight or anything. 

This is more along the lines of making psuedo awakened power suits. I know I spout off about different visualizations a bunch. This one is 2 long long ropes, spliced together in the center about the length of a persons torso making a long X, each rope wrapping around the awakeners limbs with some extra length (maybe a total of two or three times the reach of legs or arms). You could totally splice in other rope to fit in where your head would be and now you have checked off one of the boxes for good awakening. Something in roughly the shape of a human. Your imagery will allow each of the lengths of rope to act as a limb. 

I personally think that material choice is vital to functionality... a 1/4inch thick rope will work better at lifting and throwing things than a strand of dental floss. (1/4 inch hemp rope can hold 500+lbs). 

Now you wrap yourself in this rope harness and awaken it to fight like you or whatever... to give you strength or act as your hands.  You have access to far more reach (seen by Vasher with his sleeves I believe). We know that when Vasher awakened some random clothes they fought for him effectively so why wouldn't this even if it was wrapped around you?  

Mostly my question was trying to use copper to get around being trained up in it. If you were any profession other than professional soldier but you could spend your nights watching some legit fighters and built up a portfolio of memories... then somehow altered your mind to believe that you did these things... then your visualization of how you want that power suit to work would leave you better off than if you were to awaken it to fight as you and you had spent your life in a non combat related profession. 

I dont think I would want to trust my life with this and no training at all either. But if the command protect me allows a cloak to snatch arrows out of the air... how long did Vivenna train for that? Did she visualize that very scenario? I dont think so. 

Something about the awakening process allows the object to work, so long as it is within the materials capability, better than the person would do... It seems to execute its mission flawlessly. I dont remember seeing an awakening that has taken hold fail to work while still whole. Thus if your visualization is that of the perfect fighter and warrior then wouldnt it perform that way? Not saying to enhance it beyond its physical capabilities as a material. 

I think that envisioning you being faster would probably work so long as the material can do that thing as well. I dont think that a piece of rope is ever going to really break the sound barrier unless specifically designed to do so... maybe whip shaped arms? But then you wont generate enough force to do anything with it.  

Even just having a rope to hold your weapon and act as your arm an extra 2 feet in front of you would honestly be pretty terrifying to face. Getting past that would not be easy. It would be even harder with no brain to work it. 

Back to the example of Vivenna's cloak catching an arrow mid flight.  Could an attacker even feign their way into range against awakened clothing? Feigning works so well against humans because the reaction speed is limited by being human... Awakened objects dont seem to have that limitation. I know there are some humans who can catch arrows mid flight but Vivenna's cloak caught that arrow. A cloak awakened by a princess, not awakened by Taln or anything, it was awakened by a girl who had been with her powers for all of a couple chapters. 

The idea of the side kick to the knee or the jab to the face. The longest weapon against the closest target. Some truly direct attacks with double or triple length arms could be insane. No need to study grappling for this either... no one trains to grapple against living rope. 

This is just me trying to see if anyone else thinks copper compounding could allow a non-fighter to awaken objects as effective at fighting as Vasher. Almost like forging yourself to be a highly trained fighter and it working. Instead this is done through copper and tricking oneself to believe that they are a highly trained fighter before awakening their power suit.