Perlmutter Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Okay so is it just me or is having Jasnah alive a disappointment? Don't get me wrong I enjoyed her character, part of that is that she was a mentor to Shallan who died and influenced Shallan. I feel she should've stayed dead for the story. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordofsoup Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) It wasn't surprising to me given stormlight's healing properties. I was more surprised she didn't just stand right back up and punch some faces in. Welcome to the forums! Edited October 23, 2014 by lordofsoup 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newan he/him Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 I was never convinced she was dead. Same with Syl and Eshonai. The only return to life in the book that really surprised me was Szeth. Personally, I feel like four comic book deaths in one book is a little much, especially since the only real deaths (of named characters who weren't bad guys) were an interlude character, a bridgeman, and Adolin's horse. However, there was so much awesomeness in that book that I am totally willing to overlook it. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savanorn he/him Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Much like the other posters, I was never convinced she was dead. Especially when her 'corpse' disappears. As for how it will effect the story? I don't know, but if you haven't read the Jasnah Book 3 reading I'd highly recommend you do. I actually think Jasnah's (and Ivory) chapters might end up being some of the better ones. At the very least they look to bring a look of interesting stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 The way dead characters came back was sort of a disappointment, I can agree with that. I like Jasnah though, so I wasn't too upset when I found she was alive. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savanorn he/him Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 The way dead characters came back was sort of a disappointment, I can agree with that. I like Jasnah though, so I wasn't too upset when I found she was alive. Do you mean Szeth-dead, Jasnah-dead or Syl-dead? (or all three?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) Do you mean Szeth-dead, Jasnah-dead or Syl-dead? (or all three?) All three. Combine it with things like Kaladin having a Shard-severed arm and then instantly healing it, and it feels like nothing bad that happens is really permanent. Sort of feels like it lowers the stakes? (Seriously, Kaladin learning to live with only one arm would have been the best character arc ever I was so disappointed I didn't get it. I was imagining Kaladin learning to take up a leadership position and being a general.) Edited October 23, 2014 by Moogle 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmota he/him Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 I am really surprised that some people thought that Jasnah was really dead for a moment. I mean, when Shallan leave her room where she was hidding he notices that Jasnah's dead body disappeared. Also, the prologue of the book was dedicated to Jasnah and it ends with her making a promisse to find answers. Whats the point of killing her 5 chapters later?For last, we all know that she is an Elsecaller, who has the power of teleportation and of entering the cognitive realm. So of course she could have scaped from there. FOr me it was pretty obvious that she wasnt dead. At the epilogue i was just waiting for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savanorn he/him Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 All three. Combine it with things like Kaladin having a Shard-severed arm and then instantly healing it, and it feels like nothing bad that happens is really permanent. Sort of feels like it lowers the stakes? (Seriously, Kaladin learning to live with only one arm would have been the best character arc ever I was so disappointed I didn't get it. I was imagining Kaladin learning to take up a leadership position and being a general.) Well, I suppose the big thing is... I didn't think Jasnah was dead. I didn't think spren could die, so the fact that Kaladin had beat us around the head so much with his "I PROTECT" had me thinking she'd come back. I only thought Szeth was actually dead, and well...he was. Even if not for long. I thought the same with Kaladin, it was actually a little out of nowhere that Radiants had such a naturally high healing factor in general. I'm not sure if it is better or worse this way. On one hand, I feel like that is a little bit too much like Dalinar's story then, which is about learning to set aside his personal skill as a warlord/combatant and lead/unite the people. On the other, I think it'd be a relatively new arc for a young male hero. Except like, Jaime Lannister and Rand al'Thor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmota he/him Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 All three. Combine it with things like Kaladin having a Shard-severed arm and then instantly healing it, and it feels like nothing bad that happens is really permanent. Sort of feels like it lowers the stakes? (Seriously, Kaladin learning to live with only one arm would have been the best character arc ever I was so disappointed I didn't get it. I was imagining Kaladin learning to take up a leadership position and being a general.) I totally agree. I was really disappointed. Maybe Brandon didnt want to copy Jaime Lannister 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty@20 he/him Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 I won't say I was expecting Jasnah to come back. However her death felt sort of anticlimactic to me. Such a strong character to have died without a bang was a let down. So her comeback felt natural to me. With hindsight however, the entire plot of her death and comeback felt a bit forced, even though the assassination attempt was foreshadowed. Szeth's revival looked more contrived to me than Jasnah's comeback. Perhaps there was no need to kill him in the first place. He had already realized that he had been duped and simply taking away his honorblade may have been enough for plot purposes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arondell Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 For most things in the nature of "coming back from the dead" Mr. Sanderson usually manages to put all the clues on the mantel well ahead of time. I can say that as soon as I read the line indicating that Jasnah's body had disappeared I immediately became suspicious that she wasn't dead. As for Syl its been mentioned by Pattern in world and Mr. Sanderson in the past that even the spren of the old knights could be brought back if certain criteria were met.(e.g. The dead sprens knights were still alive.) Kaladin was still alive and to top it off there was a brief scene where he thought he heard her weeping. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon he/him Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 I totally agree. I was really disappointed. Maybe Brandon didnt want to copy Jaime Lannister There is another Fantasy character Brandon himself has written about recently that had this problem, but I won't say because it's rather far into the series and a major spoiler. Don't forget Luke Skywalker either. Although that was somewhat like Kaladin's resolution.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionaryofgod he/him Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 There is another Fantasy character Brandon himself has written about recently that had this problem, but I won't say because it's rather far into the series and a major spoiler. Don't forget Luke Skywalker either. Although that was somewhat like Kaladin's resolution.... I understand who you mean and it would be a disappointment to see it happen again with Kaladin. So good on Brandon healing that arm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon he/him Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 I understand who you mean and it would be a disappointment to see it happen again with Kaladin. So good on Brandon healing that arm I suppose it was a pretty massive waste of talent and badass-ness; kind of a tragedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyats Rani she/her Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 All three. Combine it with things like Kaladin having a Shard-severed arm and then instantly healing it, and it feels like nothing bad that happens is really permanent. Sort of feels like it lowers the stakes? (Seriously, Kaladin learning to live with only one arm would have been the best character arc ever I was so disappointed I didn't get it. I was imagining Kaladin learning to take up a leadership position and being a general.) Well, at first I really thought that Jasnah died, but after learning that she's alive I realised that in restrospect it makes perfect sense. As for Syl - I always knew she was going to return, her death was a way to punch some sense into Kaladin. But Szeth's return was poorly handled in my opinion. I think it's cool that he's back, but it could've been done better. I mean, seriously? Ressurecting fabrial? It would make more sense if he were brought back by a surge of Progression (maybe from one of the Honorblades?). As for Kaladin's arm - it didn't seem all that rushed to me. I mean, yeah, it'd make an awesome plot arc (possibly with him healing that arm at some later date), but it's not bad as it is. And it did consume some ridiculous amounts of stormlight. It also caused Szeth to ponder about his powers and him being Truthless as well as gave Adolin another reason to believe that there's something peculiar to Kaladin. Besides - the position of one-armed hero was already taken 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal she/her Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 There is another Fantasy character Brandon himself has written about recently that had this problem, but I won't say because it's rather far into the series and a major spoiler. Don't forget Luke Skywalker either. Although that was somewhat like Kaladin's resolution.... Are you saying you have spoilers about later books in SA or are you referencing to other books in the Cosmere? This caught my attention, so I had to ask..... Is it a character we know of or is it someone new from another not yet published story? I am not sure how I feel about the newly disabled character story arc... I felt it has been done quite a few times recently, Jaime Lannister first coming to mind. I feel such a trope would be too predictable or too common? I am glad Kaladin got to heal his arm, but I would have rather he didn't get hurt in the first place as I does make him stand out as invincible. As for Jasnah, I did think she was dead, but I was surprised Brandon was willing to kill one of his major character this early into the series. I was happy she turned out being alive, but I sure did not forecast it. Szeth was a deception. He was a villain for me and I was glad he was finally dead. Now, I am happy he is still around and I am keen to learn more about his background. I do agree them means by which he was brought back sounded kind of lame. So to summarized all of this, we have Jasnah, Szeth, Gawk that came back from the dead. We could add Kal to the list as he healed an impossible wound. What message is Brandon trying to pass here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon he/him Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 (edited) Are you saying you have spoilers about later books in SA or are you referencing to other books in the Cosmere? This caught my attention, so I had to ask..... Is it a character we know of or is it someone new from another not yet published story? It's non-Cosmere, but it is a character Brandon had a part in writing. Pretty sure I could come right out and reference the series, but now I kind of like that it's a mystery. It means you haven't read it, I think. If you are really curious, PM me and I'll tell you without spoiling who it is. Edited October 26, 2014 by Bloodfalcon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 (edited) But Szeth's return was poorly handled in my opinion. I think it's cool that he's back, but it could've been done better. I mean, seriously? Ressurecting fabrial? It would make more sense if he were brought back by a surge of Progression (maybe from one of the Honorblades?). Szeth was brought back through a Progression fabrial. Regrowth is what Lift uses to bring Gawx back from the (probably) dead. I am not sure how I feel about the newly disabled character story arc... I felt it has been done quite a few times recently, Jaime Lannister first coming to mind. I feel such a trope would be too predictable or too common? I am glad Kaladin got to heal his arm, but I would have rather he didn't get hurt in the first place as I does make him stand out as invincible. Shards cutting limbs is one of the biggest things Sanderson has swept under the rug. We've never seen... I believe it was Hobber?... After both his legs were cut by Szeth. That guy's basically disabled, and I'm pretty sure Roshar doesn't have the equivalent of wheelchair ramps everywhere. Sanderson has made weapons that amputate people quite often as a side-effect of a missed hit, and then doesn't look into the consequences. It seems like the sort of thing that should be looked at. Jaime Lannister does come to mind as following a similar storyline, but it's not like Brandon's averse to using tropes. Way of Kings basically followed the hero's journey formula to a T. With Stormlight healing, it would even be workable for Kaladin to heal his wounds after the Third Ideal or so, instead of instantly. I just feel like there's a huge space of possibilities for things you can do with Kaladin losing an arm. Edited October 26, 2014 by Moogle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 Shards cutting limbs is one of the biggest things Sanderson has swept under the rug. We've never seen... I believe it was Hobber?... After both his legs were cut by Szeth. That guy's basically disabled, and I'm pretty sure Roshar doesn't have the equivalent of wheelchair ramps everywhere. Given Kal's usual ways of thinking, I was surprised he didn't blame himself for Hobber. He appears again later on, though it's only for a moment: Kaladin arrived to the familiar scent of Rock’s stew, though Hobber—sitting on a tall stump the men had fashioned for him, a blanket across his grey, useless legs—was doing the serving. Rock stood nearby, arms folded, looking proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyats Rani she/her Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 Shards cutting limbs is one of the biggest things Sanderson has swept under the rug. We've never seen... I believe it was Hobber?... After both his legs were cut by Szeth. That guy's basically disabled, and I'm pretty sure Roshar doesn't have the equivalent of wheelchair ramps everywhere. Hobber is seen later on serving the stew so I assumed that he became Rock's assistant (slicing vegetables, serving dishes, etc.). And since the others of the Bridge Four brought him a stump to sit on next to the fire with them I'd assume that they help him with anything he can't do himself (come on, Rock totally could carry him out of the building to the fire). It's sad that so little attention was given to the matter - it's obvious that Hobber struggles but his friends help him, but it would be better if we could see more of it. On the other hand - could Renarin (or Lift later on) heal his legs with Regrowth? Or maybe he can do it himself with stromlight? I totally believe Hobber to be one of Kal's squires, so since Lopen made his arm grow back (or is starting to, I don't remember too well) maybe he can heal his legs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaspin Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 I'm just waiting for all the outrage that will ensue after Sanderson kills someone and they stay dead. You should all know he's capable and willing to kill off MAIN characters in his books 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted October 29, 2014 Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) I'm just waiting for all the outrage that will ensue after Sanderson kills someone and they stay dead. You should all know he's capable and willing to kill off MAIN characters in his books Cosmere spoilers, as in for literally every Brandon cosmere book: He's capable, but it sure doesn't happen very often. Out of the main characters of Stormlight (Shallan, Dalinar, Jasnah, Kaladin, Adolin, Renarin, Szeth, Eshonai, and Taravangian come to mind - we could probably further refine the list, but all these people are getting books besides Adolin and Taravangian, and both of them are important enough to have gotten multiple POVs), I expect at most two to die even though it's the middle of the apocalypse. Going off his previous works: Warbreaker: One main character dies in a heroic sacrifice (Lightsong), though Denth probably counts so make that two deaths. Mistborn: Three main characters die in heroic sacrifice (Vin + Elend, Kelsier), making it an average of one per book in the first trilogy. Only Miles dies in Alloy. There were plenty of side-character deaths in all the Mistborn novels, though. Zane may or may not count as a main character who died - honestly, my brain just blocks out all my memories of the relationship conflict in book 2 as a defense mechanism. Elantris: One main character dies in heroic sacrifice (Hrathen), though we could quibble on whether not Shuden(?) counts as a main character. The king might also count as one of Brandon's few non-heroic sacrifice heroic deaths, though he was such a small part of the novel and existed purely to die and create drama that I hesitate to call him a main character. There was two dukes(?) who died too (one avenging the other), but I wouldn't put them in the main cast. Sixth of the Dusk: No main character dies despite the ridiculous danger they were in, though it was a short story. Shadows for Silence: Silence's mother (grandmother? Can't recall) died in heroic sacrifice for her, though this is more of a backstory thing. Going off the data, it seems more or less like we can expect around one heroic sacrifice of a death per book from Brandon, along with one antagonist main character dying off. So far, we've got Sadeas being killed off... and not a whole lot else. Given we have three Stormlight books to go, and the previous two have had zero heroic sacrifices, it does seem Sanderson's breaking the pattern. Going off the data, we could say there should be around five heroic sacrifices and five antagonist deaths in the first five books, or perhaps three because there's three books left. I'm estimating further downward to two because the protagonists for the most part are as close to invincible as you can get and there's been no deaths as of yet. I expect one of the Radiants to kick the bucket (Kaladin probably the most obvious, as if you're looking for a main character to die heroically, the Windrunners stand out) and one of the antagonists - which is really only Taravangian at this point, though you might include Amaram as a main character. This isn't the only way to interpret the data, though - we could look at percentages of the main cast that end up being killed off. That would probably make us predict a higher number of Stormlight characters of dying off, because the cast is that much larger. I sincerely doubt Brandon's going to end the next three books with multiple main characters dying in each, however, so this method seems unworkable. I'm interested in being proven wrong by book 3, though. Edited October 29, 2014 by Moogle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal she/her Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Brandon strikes me as the kind of author that will not shy killing of a character providing said character as outlived its usefulness. I do not think he is going for a pattern, I would therefore not hazard myself out of predicting out many characters may bite the dust. It could be nobody will die in the next three books or it could be half our cast will be eating dandelions roots... However, since I do think we are going to end with 10 major Radiants, one for each order, I would hazard myself in saying Radiants are most likely safe, that and the fact they are nearly invincible. On the hand, any redundant Radiant may end up dead meat, such as poor Ym. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheosis Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Keep in mind, this is the same author of the Mistborn series. Characters will die. It's just going to take ten books to do it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts