Could an Allomancer burn a dental filling?

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

So...simple question here, but I was struggling to find a good WoB on the subject one way or the other:

It's well demonstrated that an allomancer can hide a metal object from (normal) steel-sight by placing it in their mouth (thanks Zane!). But...could they burn the metal just by holding it in their mouth?

I imagine several simple scenarios:

1. An augur (gold misting) with one solid gold "tooth" which has been surgically implanted into their jaw, meaning it touches internal nerves, capillaries, & bone, in place of a previously removed permanent tooth. Can they burn their implant and can they control whether they burn it or other gold in their body? (My understanding is that a solid gold implant would be very unusual by modern standards, buuuuut...I'm not aware of a reason it wouldn't technically work from a bio-compatibility perspective, so i think this scenario is legitimate even if it feels a little like cheating.)

2. An augur with a gold crown/filling (IE: a more modern implant that doesn't hammer metal directly into the mandible but still connects gold and internal flesh inside the mouth). Can they burn their implant? I would think that it would technically count as being in direct contact with their bones and nervous system, and since it's in their mouth, I would think it would count as being "inside" their digestive tract.

3. An aluminum gnat has an aluminum tongue piercing. Can they burn it? This one...I legitimately don't know. Surely this must have been explored before???

4. A coinshot puts two steel coins in their mouth. Can they spit one out and burn the other (without swallowing it!) As an emergency weapon?

Then, on the flipside, which (if any) of these four scenarios would result in the metals being consumed if the hypothetical allomancer in question was targeted by a leecher?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts, opinions, insights, or references!

[alder24]

34 minutes ago, hwiles said:

It's well demonstrated that an allomancer can hide a metal object from (normal) steel-sight by placing it in their mouth (thanks Zane!). But...could they burn the metal just by holding it in their mouth?

Yes. It simply needs to be in their body. It probably involves some mental exercise - a proper intent - but as long as it's in the body, they can burn it. Even hemalurgic spikes can be burned.

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Matthew Grady

Does a metal need to be swallowed to be burned? Or can it be injected or snorted?

Brandon Sanderson

It could be either of those two things. Yes. Basically, metal into the body in any way is going to work, generally. There's nothing magical about the stomach, even though it works the best when we talk about it. It's just more intermixing the nature of the metal with your soul in the cosmere, your Spiritual entity, is what gives them that ability.

YouTube Livestream 10 (June 18, 2020)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

Several of my friends play the [Mistborn] tabletop game, and we have a question, so, if you want to burn a metal Allomantically do you actually have to ingest it, or can it just be in your bloodstream, or-?

Brandon Sanderson

If it gets in there somehow, you can use it.

Questioner

So you can inhale something, or inject something ... what about spikes? Could you like burn a spike that was-?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, you could, but not if it's Hemalurgically placed or Hemalurgically charged. But otherwise yes. If it gets in you-- I almost wrote a scene where someone got stabbed through the chest and they burned it. The problem is your metal also has to be of the right allomantic alloy.

Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)

 

Spoiler

GrimoireHearts

Does Miles burn his goldmind piercings or does he swallow them

Brandon Sanderson

I'd have to grab the notes to be sure--it's been a while since I've dealt with Miles--but as I recall, he's done both.

General Reddit 2017 (July 15, 2017)

 

41 minutes ago, hwiles said:

1. An augur (gold misting) with one solid gold "tooth" which has been surgically implanted into their jaw, meaning it touches internal nerves, capillaries, & bone, in place of a previously removed permanent tooth. Can they burn their implant and can they control whether they burn it or other gold in their body? (My understanding is that a solid gold implant would be very unusual by modern standards, buuuuut...I'm not aware of a reason it wouldn't technically work from a bio-compatibility perspective, so i think this scenario is legitimate even if it feels a little like cheating.)

They can burn it, it "touches" their soul, that's what's needed. I don't know if they can control which metal is burnt, but intent matters so with a little bit of practice they can probably learn to do that.

43 minutes ago, hwiles said:

2. An augur with a gold crown/filling (IE: a more modern implant that doesn't hammer metal directly into the mandible but still connects gold and internal flesh inside the mouth). Can they burn their implant? I would think that it would technically count as being in direct contact with their bones and nervous system, and since it's in their mouth, I would think it would count as being "inside" their digestive tract.

There is no need for contact with bones or the nervous system. It's inside their body, they can burn it.

44 minutes ago, hwiles said:

3. An aluminum gnat has an aluminum tongue piercing. Can they burn it? This one...I legitimately don't know. Surely this must have been explored before???

Yup, they can burn it.

44 minutes ago, hwiles said:

4. A coinshot puts two steel coins in their mouth. Can they spit one out and burn the other (without swallowing it!) As an emergency weapon?

It's unlikely that the coin has the right Allomantic mixup, it's probably not viable for burning. But if it's specially made, with the right proportions, they can burn it.

 

39 minutes ago, hwiles said:

Then, on the flipside, which (if any) of these four scenarios would result in the metals being consumed if the hypothetical allomancer in question was targeted by a leecher?

All of them - if intent is there and if leecher has enouch chromium.

Spoiler

Kaymyth

I asked the question about chromium vs a Compounder with both Invested and un-Invested metals in both their stomach and piercings.

Brandon Sanderson

What it boils down to is this:

1) Yes, the piercings will get burned off.

2) The non-Invested metals go before the Invested ones. He said that because Invested metals are harder to affect, it takes a little extra time and effort to get them to burn off. So a Leecher trying to clean out a Compounder would have to get a good grip and hang on for a few seconds.

3) Chromium burns about as quickly as duralumin, so if you're trying to burn off a lot of metals, it is possible to run out of chromium before your target is clean. This would probably only be an issue when dealing with larger pieces (like jewelry) rather than your standard metal-flakes-in-the-stomach deal.

ConQuest 46 (May 22, 2015)

 

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

50 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Yes. It simply needs to be in their body. It probably involves some mental exercise - a proper intent - but as long as it's in the body, they can burn it. Even hemalurgic spikes can be burned.

 

  Hide contents

Questioner

Several of my friends play the [Mistborn] tabletop game, and we have a question, so, if you want to burn a metal Allomantically do you actually have to ingest it, or can it just be in your bloodstream, or-?

Brandon Sanderson

If it gets in there somehow, you can use it.

Questioner

So you can inhale something, or inject something ... what about spikes? Could you like burn a spike that was-?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, you could, but not if it's Hemalurgically placed or Hemalurgically charged. But otherwise yes. If it gets in you-- I almost wrote a scene where someone got stabbed through the chest and they burned it. The problem is your metal also has to be of the right allomantic alloy.

Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)

 

  Hide contents

GrimoireHearts

Does Miles burn his goldmind piercings or does he swallow them

Brandon Sanderson

I'd have to grab the notes to be sure--it's been a while since I've dealt with Miles--but as I recall, he's done both.

General Reddit 2017 (July 15, 2017)

 

They can burn it, it "touches" their soul, that's what's needed. I don't know if they can control which metal is burnt, but intent matters so with a little bit of practice they can probably learn to do that.

There is no need for contact with bones or the nervous system. It's inside their body, they can burn it.

Yup, they can burn it.

It's unlikely that the coin has the right Allomantic mixup, it's probably not viable for burning. But if it's specially made, with the right proportions, they can burn it.

 

All of them - if intent is there and if leecher has enouch chromium.

  Hide contents

Kaymyth

I asked the question about chromium vs a Compounder with both Invested and un-Invested metals in both their stomach and piercings.

Brandon Sanderson

What it boils down to is this:

1) Yes, the piercings will get burned off.

2) The non-Invested metals go before the Invested ones. He said that because Invested metals are harder to affect, it takes a little extra time and effort to get them to burn off. So a Leecher trying to clean out a Compounder would have to get a good grip and hang on for a few seconds.

3) Chromium burns about as quickly as duralumin, so if you're trying to burn off a lot of metals, it is possible to run out of chromium before your target is clean. This would probably only be an issue when dealing with larger pieces (like jewelry) rather than your standard metal-flakes-in-the-stomach deal.

ConQuest 46 (May 22, 2015)

 

This was an awesomely validating answer and thank you. =]

I would definitely still appreciate some dissenting opinions though since, with what I have between your thoughts and mine, it seems to me that, if any of the above scenarios truly would work, then every allomancer who cares about their health would use heavy gauge lip/tongue piercings to fuel their powers instead of ingested metals.

Pros:

1. Can't normally be pushed/pulled by adversaries like vials of metals can.

2. Would last EXTREMELY long compared to vials of flakes.

3. Could be removed, reinserted, or replaced at will; a gold placeholder ring could (I think?) Be left in continuously without ever causing metal-poisoning or allowing the hole for the piercing to heal closed.

4. Would allow for allomancers to much more closely track how much Investiture they use for any given feat (when they drink a vials of flakes, that's it, the metal is in their body and they either must burn or excrete it naturally; with a piercing, only the amount they actively burned would be lost, this amount could be measured with a balance, and they could plan, understand, and predict how much fuel they require with much greater precision and reliability across the board. Think: breath-equivalent-units but on steroids.

Cons:

1. Sort of soft-locked into a goth/punk/alternative aesthetic going down this path.

2. No more utility belts full of mysterious vials.

3. Mistborn would need some insane dental headgear to play along and would be identifiable immediately (this shouldn't be a big deal since they aren't being born anymore though)

4. Ummm...it would leave a bad taste in people's mouths? Fighting in general does that for me though, so I don't really sympathize with this one, I just recognize it.

[Mags she/they]

Hmmm . . . another pro might be that other mistborn could no longer pull your vials away from you during a fight.

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1. Sort of soft-locked into a goth/punk/alternative aesthetic going down this path.

I don't know why, but I find this super funny . . .  You could do something more classy if you tried, like just doing pierced earrings. That being said I don't think the goth/punk aesthetic would be out of character for Kelseir, Vin and Zane, but that might just be me lol

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

10 minutes ago, justice magician said:

Hmmm . . . another pro might be that other mistborn could no longer pull your vials away from you during a fight.

I don't know why, but I find this super funny . . .  You could do something more classy if you tried, like just doing pierced earrings. That being said I don't think the goth/punk aesthetic would be out of character for Kelseir, Vin and Zane, but that might just be me lol

Haha, I'm inclined to very strongly agree, I could envision anyone in the era-1 crew sporting a snake-bite and triple tongue rings. I speculate that, from a perception/intent perspective, a lip/tongue piercing would be easier to burn allomantically than a piercing anywhere else on the body (since digestive-tract is apparently canonically considered the easiest internal cavity to burn from currently) but you're right, with the information so far in this thread, it seems like earstuds should work just as well so long as the wearer thinks about them "correctly."

[alder24]

46 minutes ago, hwiles said:

I would definitely still appreciate some dissenting opinions though since, with what I have between your thoughts and mine, it seems to me that, if any of the above scenarios truly would work, then every allomancer who cares about their health would use heavy gauge lip/tongue piercings to fuel their powers instead of ingested metals.

Well, maybe, it's a lot of metal and you have to redo your piercing every time you burn it. You can even break it in half and the piercing would fall off your tongue if you burn only part of it not all of it. It's not that comfortable. Sure, it's good to have such piercing for an emergency, but I would say vials are just better, more convenient and more easily manageable. 

Piercings also rusts, which probably makes them not Allomantically viable. And because you burn metals from the surface into the center (there was a WoB on that, can't find it), a rusty metal would not be burnable.

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

17 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Well, maybe, it's a lot of metal and you have to redo your piercing every time you burn it. You can even break it in half and the piercing would fall off your tongue if you burn only part of it not all of it. It's not that comfortable. Sure, it's good to have such piercing for an emergency, but I would say vials are just better, more convenient and more easily manageable. 

Piercings also rusts, which probably makes them not Allomantically viable. And because you burn metals from the surface into the center (there was a WoB on that, can't find it), a rusty metal would not be burnable.

If you find that outside-in WoB definitely consider an update, I'd love to read it! I've had a pet theory for 10 years that southern scadrian tech is going to rely on metalminds conducting charge only along their surface (instead of throughout their volume) but I've never managed to pull the ammo together to really make a push towards arguing it in a live forum. Time's almost up! 

[alder24]

40 minutes ago, hwiles said:

If you find that outside-in WoB definitely consider an update, I'd love to read it!

I can't find correct words. It was something about an Allomancer swallowing a ball made out of two metals, one which was Allomantically inert on the outside, the other burnable on the inside. The question was if an Allomancer can feel and burn the metal which is inside, the answer was no to both. I think the inert metal was lead but I'm not sure. This WoB implies strongly that you burn metals outside-in.

Edited January 9, 2024 by alder24

[Duxredux he/him]

It may be slightly more complicated than this or require special work. In particular I'm thinking of when Wax dives off of a train to save Steris, he swallows a metal vial and it takes several moments before he can access it as an Allomantic reserve. Not sure if the the physical location is the issue or if it had anything to do with the duration that was in contact with Wax's spirit web for lack of a better term. If it's the first then something special has to happen, if it's the second than something simply held in the mouth should be fine. 

The concept of outside-in burning shows up in a few threads, one on trying to safely burn Harmonium, one on a Duralumin trick I came up with. Here's the WoB.

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Lurcher

Can you burn a metal wrapped in another metal, if both are Allomantic? Like, the inner metal, could you just burn that before?

Brandon Sanderson

No, you're gonna have to work your way through the outer one.

Lurcher

And what if it was a non-Allomantic metal? The same?

Brandon Sanderson

It's gonna depend on how thick it is, and stuff. But I would say, if you wrap it in a non-Allomantic metal, that's not good for getting to the metal. It's viable, but it just depends on how thick it is, and things like that. Like, sometimes things have been plated to keep the access to the metal off, but usually you would want to do that in aluminum, to make sure.

Salt Lake City ComicCon 2017 (Sept. 22, 2017)