Dawnshards

[Space Gandalf]

This maybe a dumb repetitive question but are dawnshards based on the idea of the four fundamental forces of nature  - 

• Gravitational force
• Electromagnetic force
• Strong nuclear force
• Weak nuclear force

 

reading the description of darnshards by Niikli in the Rysn novella immediately send my mind to this. in our universe, it is said that there are four universal or fundamental forces in nature. Without these forces, all matter in the world will fall apart. Could the dawnshards be of a similar status in the cosmere?

[Argenti he/him]

3 hours ago, Space Gandalf said:

This maybe a dumb repetitive question but are dawnshards based on the idea of the four fundamental forces of nature  - 

• Gravitational force
• Electromagnetic force
• Strong nuclear force
• Weak nuclear force

 

reading the description of darnshards by Niikli in the Rysn novella immediately send my mind to this. in our universe, it is said that there are four universal or fundamental forces in nature. Without these forces, all matter in the world will fall apart. Could the dawnshards be of a similar status in the cosmere?

The Dawnshards were used in the creation of the Cosmere and (minor TSM) 
 

Spoiler

Have a strange connection to all places at once.

So it's not a stretch to imagine they're fundamental, but they're not fundamental forces, that's the surges, as Alder said. The Dawnshards are powerful Commands, that presumably determine the functions of investiture. I think of them as representations of the Laws of investiture, but thats just me.
 

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Space Gandalf said:

This maybe a dumb repetitive question but are dawnshards based on the idea of the four fundamental forces of nature  - 

• Gravitational force
• Electromagnetic force
• Strong nuclear force
• Weak nuclear force

reading the description of darnshards by Niikli in the Rysn novella immediately send my mind to this. in our universe, it is said that there are four universal or fundamental forces in nature. Without these forces, all matter in the world will fall apart. Could the dawnshards be of a similar status in the cosmere?

What fundamental force is the Change Dawnshard? Dawnshards are the Commands, not forces. Fundamental Forces are actually represented by Invested Arts. Invested Arts, like Surgebinding or Metallic Arts, are the way people are accessing fundamental forces in Cosmere, and those forces are a bit different than those in our universe. 10 Surges are basically representation of fundamental forces of Cosmere, or rather what people perceive to be fundamental forces in Cosmere - perception matters. The last WoB states that Dawnshards aren't directly related to what people perceive as fundamental forces, which means Dawnshards aren't based on the idea of fundamental forces.

WoBs:

Spoiler

Questioner

When you're designing your magic systems, what is it you typically go into?

Brandon Sanderson

At that thing I said, brandonsanderson.com/writing/advice, I've got three essays on magic systems that can cover it way better than talking about it right now. That'll get you really into it. I would suggest those, they're called Sanderson's Laws, because I'm really humble. Asimov has them, and Clarke has them; so I can have them, there's not fantasy guys who have laws. So go read those, and they will talk you through how I develop a magic system.

Questioner

I was wondering about the background behind one of them. Stormlight.

Brandon Sanderson

Background behind the magic system in Stormlight traces back to my early history as a science major. I was a biochemistry major in college, before I jumped ship to English. And I've always been interested in the sciences quite a bit, and you'll see that in writing as a theme through my magics. The magic system of Roshar is based on the idea of the fundamental forces. I love the idea of the fundamental forces. This idea that there are certain interactions between parts of matter and energy that transcend everything else and rule how our entire world works was fascinating. So I wanted to come up with this idea of ten fundamental forces that worked with the magic system of the cosmere. Because there are extra forces, because there's weird stuff in the cosmere. Some of them are one-to-one. Gravitation is just one of the fundamental forces. And the strong and weak forces, I played with and came up with some things for that too, so you'll see that. But on the other hand, we've got things like transcending between the Physical Realm and the Cognitive Realm, which is a very cosmere-type thing. So, I built ten fundamental forces. And then I was playing with the idea (which I have in the cosmere) of pieces of energy becoming sapient. You've seen it happen in Elantris, you've seen it happen in Warbreaker. Way of Kings is one of the places I really wanted to show off how this works. So, the idea of the spren connecting a bond to the force that they're related to in certain ways, that just grew out of that.

Shadows of Self San Jose signing (Oct. 9, 2015)

 

Spoiler

Clayton

I think you said you started with the Surges and worked from the bottom up. So what was the hardest Radiant Order to conceptualize in terms of virtual or ideal and powers?

Brandon Sanderson

Cracking how I wanted the Dustbringers to work was probably the trickiest of them all, because I knew that we were going to have (not to give spoilers) some things happening with the Dustbringers that would predispose readers toward them in a certain way that I did not want the Radiant Order to exemplify. And I wanted to be sure what I thought the distinction was and why it was possible that they could go in a different direction. (Trying to circumlocute all of these things to not spoil you.) They were the hardest, probably.

Building up how to make the Surges work, I would say that building up how I wanted the strong force and the weak force, and turning them into fantasticalized versions that basically have very little to do. Like, I even went kind of the surface tension, and things like that. Those were the trickiest. Like, gravity was pretty obvious and ended up working pretty well. I didn't one-to-one move the fundamental forces, by the way. I just took the idea of fundamental forces. But I wanted there to be nods to most of the fundamental forces in the Surges, just because that's where the inspiration was, and because I was gonna be using gravity, quite obviously, because that's the one that made me most excited, and as you can see the Windrunners and the Skybreakers were two of the first ones that we dealt a lot with.

YouTube Livestream 14 (July 30, 2020)

 

Spoiler

Kaimipono

Allomancy is fueled by Preservation's body? How exactly does that work? And how does that interact with Atium—it's fueled by both gods' bodies?

Brandon Sanderson

The powers of Ruin and Preservation are Shards of Adonalsium, pieces of the power of creation itself. Allomancy, Hemalurgy, Feruchemy are manifestations of this power in mortal form, the ability to touch the powers of creation and use them. These metallic powers are how people's physical forms interpret the use of the Shard, though it's not the only possible way they could be interpreted or used. It's what the genetics and Realmatic interactions of Scadrial allow for, and has to do with the Spiritual, the Cognitive, and the Physical Realms.

[...]

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

It was mentioned that there are 16 gods in your Cosmere.

Brandon Sanderson

Depends on your definition of god.

Questioner

Shards. Are the ten orders of the Knight Radiants related to specific gods? Because Honor, child of Honor-Kaladin

Brandon Sanderson

So all the magic on Roshar, all the surgebinding on Roshar, is going to have its roots in Honor and Cultivation. Um... There is some Odium influence too, but that’s mostly voidbinding, which is the map in the back of the first book.

Questioner

I was wondering how much-

Brandon Sanderson

But, but even the powers, it’s, it’s really this sort of thing. What’s going in Stormlight is that people are accessing fundamental forces of creation and laws of the universe. They’re accessing them through the filter of Cultivation and Honor. So, that’s not to say, on another world you couldn’t have someone influence gravity. Honor doesn’t belong to gravity. But bonds, and how to deal with bonds, and things like this, is an Honor thing. So the way Honor accesses gravity is, you make a bond between yourself and either a thing or a direction or things like that and you go. So it’s filtered through Honor’s visual, and some of the magics lean more Honor and some them lean more Cultivation, as you can obviously see, in the way that they take place.

[...]

Boskone 54 (Feb. 18, 2017)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

The ten Surges on Roshar, I think you've said are basically a different set of laws of physics.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

Questioner

Are those laws of physics consistent throughout the Cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, to an extent. You would consider, like - it's kind of weird because I based them on the idea of the fundamental forces, but this is kind of like a human construction. You could say that physics is pure and natural, but we're still putting things in boxes. And the scientists on Roshar would, for instance, consider being able to travel between the Cognitive and Physical Realms as a force, the thing that pulls people back and forth between that, as a fundamental force. I don't know if it would fit our definition of a fundamental force.

Calamity Austin signing (Feb. 25, 2016)

 

Spoiler

Argent

My understanding of the... spren is that they grant powers based on what they understand to be fundamental? Ish?

Brandon Sanderson

Ish. I wouldn't 100% go with that. I would say these are the fundamental forces-- They aren't as scientific as our fundamental forces, but I would say it's more than just what the spren view and what the humans view in that case. But they are more philosophical than scientific, in cases.

Argent

Other cognitive beings, could they-- A spren on Earth. Would it grant electromagnetism surge, for example?

Brandon Sanderson

That, I would say yes.

Skyward Chicago signing (Nov. 16, 2018)

 

Spoiler

Argent

Spren grant control over surges because surges are perceived as fundamental powers on Roshar. Would other Cognitive beings grant different powers based on what they perceive to be fundamental? Such as electromagnetism is on Earth?

Brandon Sanderson

It is plausible, although this was set up in a specific way.

Argent

By Honor or Adonalsium?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO on that. Set up might be the wrong word. There were seeds that caused this to happen the way it did.

Argent

The Surgebinding thing?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, specifically... Those influenced what people perceived as fundamental forces.

JordanCon 2018 (April 22, 2018)

 

Spoiler

LewsTherinTelescope

You've said before that, while the Ten Surges arose due to perception of what things are fundamental forces, there were "seeds" that influenced what people perceived as fundamental. Is knowledge of the Rosharan Shards and Dawnshards the "seed" referenced here?

Brandon Sanderson

The Shards yes, but I wouldn't say the Dawnshards were involved directly--but the Shards were influenced by the Dawnshards, so... It gets muddy.

General Reddit 2021 (March 11, 2021)