Why isn't Dawnslight evil? [Firefight and Calamity spoilers]

[Shadow of Electrum he/him]

So I have recently reread the reckoners series, and something I can't seem to figure out is why Dawnslight wasn't evil. So we know that before calamity was defeated epics were evil because they drew upon his darkness, and to combat this you had to save someone despite your fear/weakness. I'm sure we're supposed to assume that Dawnslight faced his fear off screen or something like that, but I'm unsure how or when that was even supposed to happen. From what I can gather, Dawnslight was good from day one and he has no visible weakness. The only other character this happens with is Languish, but even Languish has a period of unaccounted time in-between the start of his epichood and his service of Lifeforce. Again I'm sure this is supposed to be some sort of mystery, but if we know when or how Dawnslight defeated the darkness I would like to know.

[Treamayne]

3 hours ago, AvonZapper said:

So I have recently reread the reckoners series, and something I can't seem to figure out is why Dawnslight wasn't evil. So we know that before calamity was defeated epics were evil because they drew upon his darkness, and to combat this you had to save someone despite your fear/weakness. I'm sure we're supposed to assume that Dawnslight faced his fear off screen or something like that, but I'm unsure how or when that was even supposed to happen. From what I can gather, Dawnslight was good from day one and he has no visible weakness. The only other character this happens with is Languish, but even Languish has a period of unaccounted time in-between the start of his epichood and his service of Lifeforce. Again I'm sure this is supposed to be some sort of mystery, but if we know when or how Dawnslight defeated the darkness I would like to know.

While it is not explicitely stated, it is implied that because Dawnslight was in a coma long before the rise of Calamity, he did not ever have the Rending (just as David never had a Rending), and therefore never experienced the Darkness inherited from Calamity. He also rarely used his powers conciously, since they manifest more as a way of making his coma dreams a reality (based on the posters seen near his room - FF Ch 49):

Spoiler

As I ascended the light grew brighter, and I began to make out odd decorations on the walls.

…Posters?

Yes, posters. Old ones, from the decades before Calamity. Bright, vibrant colors, women in ruffled skirts, sweaters that exposed a shoulder. Neon on black. The posters had faded over time, but I could see they’d been hung meticulously back in the day. I stopped beside one in that silent stairwell. It showed a pair of hands holding a glowing fruit, a band’s name emblazoned at the bottom.

 

[Shadow of Electrum he/him]

3 hours ago, Treamayne said:

he did not ever have the Rending (just as David never had a Rending), and therefore never experienced the Darkness

  Reveal hidden contents

As I ascended the light grew brighter, and I began to make out odd decorations on the walls.

…Posters?

Yes, posters. Old ones, from the decades before Calamity. Bright, vibrant colors, women in ruffled skirts, sweaters that exposed a shoulder. Neon on black. The posters had faded over time, but I could see they’d been hung meticulously back in the day. I stopped beside one in that silent stairwell. It showed a pair of hands holding a glowing fruit, a band’s name emblazoned at the bottom.

 

(Sorry I don't know how to properly quote stuff)

This makes a lot of sense, but I do have a problem with this theory. When David bypassed his rending, both Regalia and calamity were surprised. I say this because Regalia reacted to this as if it was completely impossible, which at this point it was believed to be impossible. The problem is that with how closely Regalia worked with Dawnslight and Calamity, I would have expected a different reaction from the two of them. Of course I think they'd still be surprised, but I don't think it would have been "I've never seen this happen before!" Kind of surprise if that makes any sense. Beyond that I really like this explanation, thank you!

[Treamayne]

On 12/25/2023 at 12:48 AM, AvonZapper said:

(Sorry I don't know how to properly quote stuff)

This may help:

Spoiler

• At the bottom left of a post you will see a "+" icon, a "Quote" link.
• At the bottom right you will see an heart icon (and possibly different reactions in the future).
• At the top right you will see a hamburger menu (three dots) which shows: Report, Share, and (your posts only) Edit and Hide tools.

Likes/Reactions:

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• The Heart Icon (Like) is how you thank people or "like" a post
  • Likes, Mentions and Quotes should all send an alert to the appropriate person - even when added to an old post through the Edit feature.

Report Tool:

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Hide Tool:

Spoiler

• Use the Hide tool to hide your post if you want to remove it after posting (useful for accidental double-posts)
  • Hiding the first post in a Thread will hide the threan as long as ther have been no replies (Needs Testing)

Mentions:

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• You can "Mention" a person by typing "@" and slowly typing their user name (spelling matters). As you spell their name, the interface will show a pop-up with matches - when you match appears, click it to add the Mention
  • Likes, Mentions and Quotes should all send an alert to the appropriate person - even when added to an old post through the Edit feature.

Quote Methods:

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  • So, if you have already started to reply before you decide to quote you can then add the quote before or after your text depending on the cursor location when you click "Quote"
• The + icon is multi-quote. As you read a thread, if you want to quote multiple items you can click that for each post you want to quote
  • As you click +, you should see a toaster pop-up on the bottom right of the browser window showing how many quotes you will have
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• Finally, you can also highlight a small section of a post and, when hovering over the highlit portion, click the "Quote Selection" button that pops up.
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• Also note that you can move quotes after they have been added to your reply.
  • For example, you add a quote and realize there are no empty lines below it for you to type - so you can hit "enter" before the quote to make an empty line then when you hover over a quote you will see a 4-way arrow at the top-left that you can use to drag the quote up (or down)  and move the quote to before the empty line. . .
  • This is also how you can add quotes to an Edit of your own post. You quote using any of the methods above and the quote will go to the reply section. You then hover over the four-way arrow and use CTRL+C to cut the quote, which you can then paste into your edit window.
• Likes, Mentions and Quotes should all send an alert to the appropriate person - even when added to an old post through the Edit feature.

Editing posts:

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Other:

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  • Attributed Quotes will have a curved arrow icon on the right side of the quote title to jump directly to the post from which the quote was taken.

Hope that helps.

On 12/25/2023 at 12:48 AM, AvonZapper said:

Of course I think they'd still be surprised, but I don't think it would have been "I've never seen this happen before!" Kind of surprise if that makes any sense.

Well, we don't know if Calamity ever came to Babailar, we only know that Regalia seemed to have a way to contact him. As for Regalia, Dawnslight was one of the first Epics anywhere and while she kept him safe (hostage), we have no reason to believe she ever had a way to communicate with He Who Dreams. How would she even know he never had a Rending, much less how that may or may not affect his power access? She's only been in Babilar a comparitively short time since she did not have her own rending there, and spent time with Prof and Tia before moving the New York to challenge the reigning epics there. Also keep in mind that this is one conversation where David triggers her weakness - so she may have been overstating her position a bit due to power-induced-hubris, which was then extra-shocking because not only did he not display powers, but his weakness was triggered (which affects the emotion of the scene, I think).

 

Edited May 31, 2024 by Treamayne
SPAG

[+robardin he/him]

On 12/25/2023 at 12:48 AM, Shadow of Electrum said:

(Sorry I don't know how to properly quote stuff)

This makes a lot of sense, but I do have a problem with this theory. When David bypassed his rending, both Regalia and calamity were surprised. I say this because Regalia reacted to this as if it was completely impossible, which at this point it was believed to be impossible. The problem is that with how closely Regalia worked with Dawnslight and Calamity, I would have expected a different reaction from the two of them. Of course I think they'd still be surprised, but I don't think it would have been "I've never seen this happen before!" Kind of surprise if that makes any sense. Beyond that I really like this explanation, thank you!

Having just re-read The Reckoners, I think there's another, slightly more subtle take/answer to why Dawnslight "wasn't evil" in Firefight: perhaps he DID experience "the Rending", but the expression of that would be pretty mild (non-destructive) given his powerset, and the fact that he gained his powers while already physically comatose.

And then there's the fact that his powers are very beneficent: Babilar is able to function as well as it does because of him, and later was even saved from destruction after the fall of Regalia, due to his ability to control the glowing fruit-bearing plants. If his powerset contains any destructive side, we haven't seen it.

More to the point, we find out by the end of Firefight that "pushing through the fear to altruistically save someone else" greatly allowed an Epic to overcome the dark, corrupting influence of Calamity's emotions that was the primary reason for "The Rending" (the act of fully embracing, or maximally using/testing, one's Epic powers being an expression of full alignment with Calamity). And then, in Calamity, that "fully claiming the powers" as a part of oneself, and not something externally gained or lost, broke that link entirely, even before Calamity exited stage left.

So Dawnslight could have done both quite quickly. What would he have "feared" that would form a weakness, we may not know; but "fully claiming" his power would probably be very natural for a comatose child, where his Epic power (granting the ability to sense and communicate through the glowing plants/fruits) would quickly be integrated into his identity as a conscious being.

That "fully claiming" his power thing alone should be enough to "banish the link to Calamity" and thus the darkness behind the Rending. And if not, the act of using his powers to feed and to generate power for people should count as altruism, too; like if his "fear" were something about approaching strangers or something.

What wasn't clear to me was if Dawnslight's existince in, and relationship with "Babilar" pre-dated or post-dated Regalia taking it over.

Edited June 9, 2025 by robardin

[+robardin he/him]

On 6/9/2025 at 11:46 AM, robardin said:

Having just re-read The Reckoners, ...

What wasn't clear to me was if Dawnslight's existince in, and relationship with "Babilar" pre-dated or post-dated Regalia taking it over.

OK I plead guilty to having skipped the first half of "Firefight" in my re-read, I went back and read the beginning and it's quite clear from Mizzy's personal recollection that the glows from spray paint and the glowing, fruit-bearing plants (attributed to Dawnslight) "came immediately afterward" of Calamity's appearance.

The waters came "after, when Regalia arrived".

The reliance on magic fruit from vines that grow all over the city is likely the reason for the name of Babylon Restored, in reference to the "Hanging Gardens of Babylon", and as such the city's new name probably pre-dates Regalia, who arrived fairly recently prior to the events of Firefight.

There's no obvious reason to rename New York City to "Babylon Restored" due to flooding, ... I guess unless it was the flooding that prompted any renaming at all, and at that point, the glowing vines and fruit thing prompted the Babylon association. Or if it was Regalia who came up with the name, and was in a position to make it stick.

As for how long it took Regalia to arrive and take over Babilar, I can't figure that out just yet.

Val says in Ch. 10, "I've been embedded here for over two years -- I arrived about six months after Regalia stopped her tyranny and decided to clean the place up."

Calamity was 12 years prior to the events of Steelheart, and enough time passes between killing Steelheart and the beginning of Firefight for them to set up a new government and to face off against THREE Epics in post-Steelheart Newcago before Prof heads over to Babilar...

So Regalia "stopping her tyranny and cleaning the place up" would dovetail with the fall of Steelheart, and her beginning her plans to lure and then to push Prof over the edge.

But prior to her "becoming nice-nice", she "let the gangs rule for [unspecified] years" after flooding the city... So how long did THAT go on for?

(Does it really matter?)

Edited June 10, 2025 by robardin

[Duxredux he/him]

Late to the party and coming in with speculation. Fears and weaknesses have historical roots in each Epic right? Well... anyone else have a childhood fear or worry that everything is actually just a dream and that you'll wake up and nothing was real? Seems valid for a Epic in a coma. Me personally, when I had that childhood fear, I had several conclusions but one of them was deciding to just operate as if it was real regardless using the information I had on hand. Dawnslight notes that he isn't ever sure when he's dreaming or not but acts altruistically anyway. 

Could be that an Epic with dream powers could have had influence over the nightmares that come with the powers - or it could be that it was moot because Dawnslight was already living his worst fear.