Metals on the Coppermind

[Nightstar The Bright]

I noticed that most of the metals on the coppermind (tin, steel, iron, pewter etc) are very focused on the metallic arts. An example of this:

Quote

Pewter is the internal physical pushing metal. An Allomancer burning pewter has increased physical strength, speed, durability, balance, and enhanced ability to heal. It allows the user to push their body far past what they would normally be able to achieve. Feruchemists can use pewter to store physical strength, and, when used as a Hemalurgic spike, pewter steals Physical Feruchemical powers.

We know that specific metals have a special place in the cosmere, (steel pushes something away while iron pulls on something etc) which is seen beyond the metallic arts (in aethers etc). I think it is a bad thing that the pages for these metals are so focused on the metallic arts. I think it is time to be more neutral, to have this information be on the metallic arts part of the page rather then in the introduction ( the first ‘area’). What do you guys think?

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Nightstar The Bright said:

I noticed that most of the metals on the coppermind (tin, steel, iron, pewter etc) are very focused on the metallic arts. An example of this:

We know that specific metals have a special place in the cosmere, (steel pushes something away while iron pulls on something etc) which is seen beyond the metallic arts (in aethers etc). I think it is a bad thing that the pages for these metals are so focused on the metallic arts. I think it is time to be more neutral, to have this information be on the metallic arts part of the page rather then in the introduction ( the first ‘area’). What do you guys think?

I kind of agree but we have not much information about non-Metallic Arts effects. Steel in Fabrials repels - that's it. Steel in contact with Aethers pushes it away - that's it. The description is complete. Only Metallic Arts have a lot to add, and because metal effects were mostly visible in the Mistborn series, that's why pages start with Metallic Arts in the first general description section. 

This "Mistborn-centrism" is the most visible in the aluminum page - its initial introduction is almost all about Metallic Arts, despite having lots of information from all over Cosmere, especially on Roshar. But aluminum is an expectation in terms of available information and effects we can describe.

I see two options - either leave it as it in most metal pages and wait for more information, or just delete the Metallic Art from the first section, leaving just this:

Quote

Steel is the External Physical Pushing metal, made from iron and carbon;[1] it is the alloy paired with iron in the Metallic Arts.

I don't think we should squeeze in this first part a few sentences about how steel works on other worlds, because that would repeat the same information almost word to word.

But on the other hand the description of steel in Allomancy or Feruchemy is so vast, that it's good to have a shortened description at the very top. While we nerds know perfectly well what steel does, some less-invested fans would benefit from having a short description of steel in Metallic Arts in the first top section, just to remind themselves what steel does without needing to read the wall of text below. There is an argument for leaving it as it is - it's helpful.

However the change is necessary for the aluminum page. It's needlessly "Mistborn-centric." I would add Scadrial to the "Around the Cosmere" section below and place this there instead (I'm sure there would be more in the future about Aluminum on Scadrial and adding all of that into the top section is just messy):

Quote

Scadrial

[During the Final Empire] the Lord Ruler kept aluminum and its alloy duralumin from public knowledge to give the Inquisitors an advantage.[29] During his rule, aluminum was harvested from the Ashmounts.[18] (cut from the Final Empire)

[add information about using aluminum in hats to shield from emotional Allomancy and aluminum guns and bullets after Catacendre]

Aluminum metal (and some of its alloys) are "Allomantically inert" -- they cannot be Pushed or Pulled, and can shield people from emotional Allomancy.[4][5] Aluminum generates no atium shadows[6] and can create dead zones within cadmium and bendalloy bubbles, where the shielded area is not included within the time bubble.[7] It also interferes with Feruchemical healing, by making it impossible for wounds to heal around the aluminum until it is removed from the body. There is a similar effect on pewter Allomancy.[8]

A significant percentage of the aluminum in the Basin is produced by the Ghostbloods. Dean, the Scadrian branch's chemist, believes that the Scadrians would one day discover how to create it via electrolysis, and that the value would plummet to being cheaper than tin. The Ghostbloods have been using their aluminum to fund their operations for the past two decades.[10]

And at the top I would add some short description that aluminum in general resists being invested and affected by investiture. It has a field effect. It can't be cut with a Shardblade nor can it be Soulcast. In Fabrials it's used to block the effect of a Fabrial in a certain direction (or whatever it does). Keep it short, keep it basic. But I would avoid including information from places like Lumar or Sel, where there is just a single sentence of description - that would be just repeating the same information. The part "Aluminum has been confirmed to have strange effects to all magic systems, is magically inert, and will act as an Investiture sink.] already informs us that there is more to look for down below. 

[Treamayne]

I think we should leave them as-is for now, but agree we should absolutley start the discussion on the fundamental realmatic properties of each metal. Example:

RoW Epigraphs:

Spoiler

Quote

An iron cage will create an attractor—a fabrial that draws specific elements to itself. A properly created smoke fabrial, for example, can gather the smoke of a fire and hold it close.

Spoiler

A pewter cage will cause the spren of your fabrial to express its attribute in force—a flamespren, for example, will create heat. We call these augmenters.

 

These indicate that the realmatic property of each is "attraction" and "strengthen" (respectively). I think once we have confirmation that this indication is, in fact, a Realmatic property, then I think we can start revising the metal pages. Then the blurb at the top can be about the realmatic property, and the sections below can be adjusted to "fabrials" and "Manifestations of Investiture" with appropriate subheadings in each primary section.

Things like how TLR withheld metals should not be on the metal page anyway, they belong on the appropriate story, person and (possibly) location pages. 

[Nightstar The Bright]

On 12/21/2023 at 2:15 PM, alder24 said:

I kind of agree but we have not much information about non-Metallic Arts effects. Steel in Fabrials repels - that's it. Steel in contact with Aethers pushes it away - that's it. The description is complete. Only Metallic Arts have a lot to add, and because metal effects were mostly visible in the Mistborn series, that's why pages start with Metallic Arts in the first general description section. 

I understand, but the general description could be less focused on the metallic arts and more like (for steel) ‘steel generally repels objects’ (something like that). I understand we don’t have that much information, but it could always be more global (doesn’t ‘start’ with the metallic arts).

On 12/21/2023 at 2:15 PM, alder24 said:

This "Mistborn-centrism" is the most visible in the aluminum page - its initial introduction is almost all about Metallic Arts, despite having lots of information from all over Cosmere, especially on Roshar. But aluminum is an expectation in terms of available information and effects we can describe.

I see two options - either leave it as it in most metal pages and wait for more information, or just delete the Metallic Art from the first section, leaving just this:

The Aluminum page should (in my opinion) be far more global then it is currently, like you said. I understand that we don’t have that much information on it (outside the metallic arts), but you could switch that information around a little, making the page have the same information, but making it look a lot more general (rather then metallic arts focused).

 

On 12/21/2023 at 2:15 PM, alder24 said:

I don't think we should squeeze in this first part a few sentences about how steel works on other worlds, because that would repeat the same information almost word to word.

But on the other hand the description of steel in Allomancy or Feruchemy is so vast, that it's good to have a shortened description at the very top. While we nerds know perfectly well what steel does, some less-invested fans would benefit from having a short description of steel in Metallic Arts in the first top section, just to remind themselves what steel does without needing to read the wall of text below. There is an argument for leaving it as it is - it's helpful.

However the change is necessary for the aluminum page. It's needlessly "Mistborn-centric." I would add Scadrial to the "Around the Cosmere" section below and place this there instead (I'm sure there would be more in the future about Aluminum on Scadrial and adding all of that into the top section is just messy):

Top: general ‘effect’ (pushing on things). Then what it does more specifically (Allomancy, fabrials, aethers etc) in their own ‘sub parts’ for lack of a better term (the things you can reveal/hide). Personally I don’t think that just because there is a lot of information we should put a short description up above. If you’re a regular fan you should still just read the metallic arts part (whichever art you want to read about), it’s not that dense. If you really want to know what steel does in Allomancy it isn’t a problem to scroll down, but having it twice in the page is a little to much (at least having it twice is unnecessary for me).

It can be helpful, but we could also put this short ‘description’ without to much technical terms on the metallic arts part of the page itself (in simple terms an Allomancer burning steel can… etc) before we get into the technical parts. This way the page looks a little more global, but still explains what the metal does in the metallic arts in simple terms. Putting it as the first information on the metallic arts part still makes it easy to read, you won’t need to read that entire wall of text. 

I agree with what you say about the aluminum page 

On 12/21/2023 at 2:15 PM, alder24 said:

And at the top I would add some short description that aluminum in general resists being invested and affected by investiture. It has a field effect. It can't be cut with a Shardblade nor can it be Soulcast. In Fabrials it's used to block the effect of a Fabrial in a certain direction (or whatever it does). Keep it short, keep it basic. But I would avoid including information from places like Lumar or Sel, where there is just a single sentence of description - that would be just repeating the same information. The part "Aluminum has been confirmed to have strange effects to all magic systems, is magically inert, and will act as an Investiture sink.] already informs us that there is more to look for down below. 

I agree with most of what you say here, and it’s good to give some examples on it being magically inert, but I don’t think you should name it’s functions in large magic systems. This is because of the same reasons mentioned above, it makes the page feel more global. You could still place a short and easy description at the top of the corresponding ‘area’.

22 hours ago, Treamayne said:

I think we should leave them as-is for now, but agree we should absolutley start the discussion on the fundamental realmatic properties of each metal.

22 hours ago, Treamayne said:

These indicate that the realmatic property of each is "attraction" and "strengthen" (respectively). I think once we have confirmation that this indication is, in fact, a Realmatic property, then I think we can start revising the metal pages. Then the blurb at the top can be about the realmatic property, and the sections below can be adjusted to "fabrials" and "Manifestations of Investiture" with appropriate subheadings in each primary section.

That’s alright, but once we have proper confirmation (from Brandon/perhaps Khriss) we should begin making some changes. I just wanted to bring this all to you guy’s attention and have a good discussion about it. Thanks.