NinjaTurtle Posted December 13, 2023 Posted December 13, 2023 So first time posting here, and I wanted to post a theory/observation I had back when I first read mistborn era 2 a decent few years ago. I’ve seen Harmony fall into this a lot, but the idea is that the shard names reflect intent, and that Harmony can also go by Discord, to reflect the fact that the two shardic intents aren’t aligned. Another name I can up with personally (whether mentioned elsewhere or not) is Indecision, as that is what the shard seems to be now. but my observation/theory is that this multi-name idea can also apply to other shards. In mistborn era 1, the story could be “Preservation is trying to save the planet, while Ruin destroys it” but change the names a bit, and you get a different story. “Stagnation(Preservation) stops the planet, while Entropy(Ruin) moves it forward.” Granted the “moving forward” is still bad in the context of the actual story, but it makes it seem like Ruin isn’t as bad as he’s made out to be. The same can be done with most shards rather easily. Odium could be Passion. Honor could be bonds (which could be both good or bad, depending on what kind of bonds.) Autonomy could be self-control, or independence. Cultivation is a bit harder, but as Odium mentions is just growth, regardless of whether for better or worse. Dominion could be tyranny, or even possibly discipline? Devotion could be zealotry, or worship, or possibly as far as service Endowment even could be described as luck, wealth, or greed even. (Though I think greed might better fit Ambition.) So this brings me to the question, how were the shards named? I know it’s based on the intent of the shard, but who truly agreed on those names? A intent to keep things the same IS both preservation and stagnation. A Intent to have emotions can be both passion, and hate/Odium. The names imply a good or evil connotation to shards that I think have less of a moral compass than what’s portrayed. But regardless, I haven’t done a ton of research into the cosmere as a whole, beyond reading the books and a few coppermind articles, so this may have been answered in a WoB, or another thread. Apologize if so. TLDR is who actually decided in the shard’s names? P.S. I want to blame Hoid despite having no proof of him doing anything, it just feels right.
alder24 Posted December 13, 2023 Posted December 13, 2023 1 hour ago, NinjaTurtle said: So this brings me to the question, how were the shards named? I know it’s based on the intent of the shard, but who truly agreed on those names? A intent to keep things the same IS both preservation and stagnation. A Intent to have emotions can be both passion, and hate/Odium. The names imply a good or evil connotation to shards that I think have less of a moral compass than what’s portrayed. But regardless, I haven’t done a ton of research into the cosmere as a whole, beyond reading the books and a few coppermind articles, so this may have been answered in a WoB, or another thread. Apologize if so. TLDR is who actually decided in the shard’s names? P.S. I want to blame Hoid despite having no proof of him doing anything, it just feels right. Originally those specific intents came from Dawnshards that were used to Shatter Adonalsium; each intent represents a part of Adonalsium's personality and a primal force attached to it. A Vessel, who is a person holding a Shard, can affect Shard's intent and interpreted it slightly different, or even change it (but still within the limits of original intent/personality/power that this Shard represent; Ruin can't just become Bravery - it has to be about destruction and change) - Rayse was trying to do that, redefining Odium to Passion with mixed success (because Passion is a much wider concept than Odium), on the other hand Ati successfully focused Ruin on entropy (but he didn't need to become Entropy). Hoid is to blame, he took part in the Shattering Lots of WoB on that: Spoiler Questioner In Dawnshard, we see a mural of Adonalsium being Shattered. Brandon Sanderson Yes. Questioner It’s, like a circle that splits into four parts, and those four parts also split into four parts. Brandon Sanderson Yes. Questioner So I’m wondering if there’s a way to group the Shards in terms of being, or…? Brandon Sanderson I would encourage people to be trying to figure this out. New York Comic Con 2022 (Oct. 8, 2022) Spoiler Questioner How much should we be thinking about possible logical groupings of Shards? For instance, as pairs or groups of four. Brandon Sanderson Go ahead, knock yourselves out. This is relevant, but only in a sort of Cosmerenaut sort of way, people who like theorizing on these things and what not. It's not going to be hugely relevant to the narrative, but Dawnshard does indicate that these groupings are a place you can go. The Dusty Wheel Show (June 17, 2021) Spoiler askthepaperclip (paraphrased) If Adonalsium were to shatter in a parallel universe, would it divide into the same 16 intents? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Um...it...Adonalsium could have been shattered in other ways. askthepaperclip (paraphrased) Was there a force determining which way it shattered? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes! New York Signing (Nov. 16, 2013) Spoiler Questioner Shards. We started with fairly obvious ones, magic wise. Trying to keep this spoiler free, so: Ruin, Preservation, this kind of thing. Then we get the weird ones. Why do we have Shards that can only exist in the mind of a sentient creature? ...Like the concept of Honor can only be done when it's carried out, essentially, by a sentient creature. Brandon Sanderson So when I split Adonalsium I said, "I'm going to take aspects of Adonalsium's nature." And this involves personality to me. So the Shattering of Adonalsium was primal forces attached to certain aspects of personality. And so I view every one of them this way. And when I wrote Mistborn we had Ruin and Preservation. They are the primal forces of entropy and whatever you call the opposite, staying-the-same-ism-y. Like, you've got these two contrasts, between things changing and things not changing. And then humans do have a part, there's a personality. Ruin is a charged term for something that actually is the way that life exists. And Preservation is a charged term for stasis, for staying the same. And those are the personality aspects, and the way they are viewed by people and by the entity that was Adonalsium. So I view this for all of them. Like, Honor is the sense of being bound by rules, even when those rules, you wouldn't have to be bound by. And there's this sense that that is noble, that's the honor aspect to it, but there's also something not honorable about Honor if taken from the other direction. So a lot of them do kind of have this both-- cultural component, I would say, that is trying to represent something that is also natural. And not all of them are gonna have a 100% balance between those two things, I would say, because there's only so many fundamental laws of the universe that I can ascribe personalities to in that way. So I find Honor very interesting, but I find Autonomy a very interesting one for the exact same reason. What does autonomy mean? We attach a lot to it, but what is the actual, if you get rid of the charged terms, what does it mean? And this is where you end up with things like Odium claiming "I am all emotion." Rather than-- But then there's a charged term for it that is associated with this Shard. I'm not going to tell you whether he's right or not, but he has an argument. Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018) Spoiler delvin Is it possible that Honor's Shard is named Honor, because this is how the man who hold The Shard inerpreted it but not it's real name? In that case could The Shard change the name to something else that would better fit with personality of the new holder? As an example, could Honor become Unity if Dalinar were the holder? Brandon Sanderson The name Honor is bigger than Tanavast, though it's not impossible for shards to be interpreted differently by those who hold them, and perhaps other names be applied. General Reddit 2020 (Dec. 1, 2020) Spoiler Necarion Do Vessels have any flexibility in expressing the intent of a Shard, particularly if the intent is open to many interpretations? Brandon Sanderson Yes they do. So, the Vessel's mind and how they perceive is going to have a large influence on how things are expressed and I think all of them have some wiggle room. But there are some deterministic things that are also going to push them. You know, holding Ruin, Harmony may not go down the same path that happened to Ati. Necarion So Sadeas would express Honor differently than Tanavast? Brandon Sanderson Yes he would. Arcanum Unbounded San Francisco signing (Nov. 30, 2016) Spoiler Argent When Sazed picked up the Shards of Preservation and Ruin, did he actively choose to be known as Harmony (instead of, for example, Balance, or Equilibrium, or Stability), or is there some Cosmeric law that says Preservation + Ruin = Harmony? Brandon Sanderson He chose the name, but in part because it FELT right to him. Argent Is this similar to how a Shard's "personality" overwrites the Shardholder's over time? Brandon Sanderson Similar, yes. /r/books AMA 2015 (June 17, 2015) Spoiler yulerule So, we have Shard names; Ruin, Preservation, Harmony, Cultivation, Honor, Ambition, Autonomy, Devotion, Dominion. Those are pretty much regular English words. And then we have Odium. That's a little more Latinate. It's not-- It doesn't fit the pattern. Brandon Sanderson So I don't really look as something as Latinate or Germanic, when I'm picking the names usually. yulerule But this one is more. Even in Devotion or Dominion, their more regular English. Why? Brandon Sanderson I just look for the thing that feels right. Remember, all these words are in translation. When you read the book, they were a word in the original language of the book, that then we have translated to English. And so, don't look to much about what's Greek, what's Latin, what's Germanic. I will mix those a lot. And that's just because I'm looking for the word that has right resonance in English, that I'm writing in. You might even find Latin and Greek mixes in some of my stuff. And that's not done to be like, "Oh, you should be paying [attention]." Usually, I'm just looking for a flavor. yulerule So it's the flavor-- Because I actually did have it - they're all translations, why not <Hatred instead of Odium?> Brandon Sanderson Because Odium is cooler. It just sounds cooler. There is no answer other than "I like the word better." yulerule Is there any connection with the thought that it's not Hatred? Because in Oathbringer, he says he's Passion? Brandon Sanderson He would claim that he's Passion and not Odium. But that is part of why I chose it. Hatred felt too on-the-nose, because there is quite arguably that step toward just being all Passion, and that's what he claims that he is. yulerule His own perception of himself, can perception, in the cosmere, can that influence? Brandon Sanderson Yes, it can influence. yulerule So the Shard's intent can-- Brandon Sanderson Can be influenced by their perception and the holder's, yes. JordanCon 2018 (April 20, 2018) Spoiler m4ge If a Splintered Shard is somehow reformed, is it possible to change the word that expresses its Intent? Brandon Sanderson Yes, but that's a very implausible thing depending on how... so, you're getting into some weird Cosmere stuff here. Most of the ways that these different Shards could manifest could be described differently. Odium is trying very hard to describe his Shard as something different, and there's an argument there. But it depends on if you're like actually changing it or if you just want to call it something different. You could just call Odium Hatred and it's not going to change anything, but if you wanted to change Odium to mean Passion like Odium thinks that it means, then that's more difficult. YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 (June 3, 2021) Spoiler Alvaro Lopez Why Odium is stronger and worst evil than Ruin? Brandon Sanderson One reason is that Ruin had a person in control of it who, for many years, fought against the impulse to destroy--and in the end, channeled it toward entropy and decay, necessary elements of the universe. Odium represents something else entirely. General Twitter 2018 (June 6, 2018) 1
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