Breath and sickness

[Nightstar The Bright]

So I wonder, the more breaths one has the more resistant you get to disease. But I mean it’s unlikely that it just heals the disease in a second, otherwise you’d be passing breaths around left and right, healing everyone who needs it. So maybe it’s just suppressing the disease, waiting for you to release the breaths. What do you guys think? Why aren’t breaths passed around, healing everyone who needs it/ how does this healing work?

Chapter 43:

You’ve got enough Breath for at least the Third Heightening, if I’m reading you right. You’ll never know sickness.

Coppermind:
The Fifth Heightening grants Agelessness; an Awakener's resistance to aging and disease reaches its maximum strength.

[alder24]

10 minutes ago, Nightstar The Bright said:

So I wonder, the more breaths one has the more resistant you get to disease. But I mean it’s unlikely that it just heals the disease in a second, otherwise you’d be passing breaths around left and right, healing everyone who needs it. So maybe it’s just suppressing the disease, waiting for you to release the breaths. What do you guys think? Why aren’t breaths passed around, healing everyone who needs it/ how does this healing work?

Chapter 43:

You’ve got enough Breath for at least the Third Heightening, if I’m reading you right. You’ll never know sickness.

Coppermind:
The Fifth Heightening grants Agelessness; an Awakener's resistance to aging and disease reaches its maximum strength.

It heals you. That's how investiture works - your immune system gets a massive boost and kills diseases within moments. While at 3rd Heightening you are practically immune to normal illnesses, you can still be affected by strong toxins and poisons - that's why Lemex could be killed, he was poisoned, he wasn't ill. 

Why would you pass your Breaths around? They are worth fortune, why would you assume the guy you're giving them to, will return them to you? It's like passing a million dollars for someone to hold and expecting they will just give it back, if you ask nicely. That won't work. 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Forty-One

Vivenna, Sick and Disoriented, Gets Turned Away by the Restaurant Keeper

One of the ways I decided to make Vivenna's sections here work better was by enhancing the fuzziness of her mind. By giving her this sense of numbness, I hope to indicate that something is not right with her.

It's common for someone who suddenly becomes a Drab to get sick almost immediately. For a time, her immune system was magically enhanced and warded, in a way, to keep her from becoming ill. With that removed suddenly, sickness can strike. She hasn't built up immunities to the sicknesses going around, and by becoming a Drab, her immune system suddenly works far worse than that of other people.

These things combined made her come down with something pretty nasty the very day she put away her Breath. This would have killed her, eventually, if she hadn't done something about it. She would have grown so dizzy and confused that she wouldn't have even been able to walk.

By sending men to find her, Denth saved her life.

Anyway, I feel that these scenes work much better now. We can look at Vivenna's time on the streets in the same surreal sense that she does. They happened in the past, in a strange dream state. In that way, they can seem much longer than just two chapters and a couple of weeks.

Warbreaker Annotations (Feb. 7, 2011)

 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Vivenna Realizes That the Mercenaries Are Traitors

And finally, here we are. The biggest gamble in the book. I went into the novel knowing I was going to do this, and I wrote all along with the intention that Denth and his crew were working against Vivenna's interests.

As I mentioned in a spoiler section earlier, Tonk Fah is a sociopath, and much of the time when he makes his jokes about hurting people, he's serious. (The vanishing pets are a subtle clue to this.) He finds the concept of hurting people funny. We laugh because of Denth, who's running interference and making it seem like they're just exaggerating to get a laugh.

The death of Lemex is another clue—he was, indeed, immune to disease. (Though not poison, if enough was used.) Anyone with that many Breaths is immune. Another clue is what the mercenaries are doing, riling up the Hallandren to war rather than working to prevent it. Not that Vivenna wanted them to, but through Denth's manipulations, Siri has all but been forgotten in the face of the work against Hallandren. Of course, Vivenna herself was willing to forget Siri. Not by intent, but because she has always been more focused on Hallandren, and Siri was partially just an excuse.

The fact that Vivenna's father's agents are never seen looking for her, the fact that the mercenaries don't seem to care about money, the way Jewels was frequently gone at the beginning (partially so she could tail Vivenna), and much of what they said and did were supposed to be reinforcement of this moment of betrayal.

All that said, however, I don't think it's at all obvious what they are really up to. And that's why this is a gamble. This twist isn't an "Ah, I should have seen it!" revelation like the one about the Lord Ruler at the end of Mistborn. Instead, it's a twist that—hopefully—has just enough groundwork underneath it not to seem out of nowhere. I fully expect it to blindside most readers.

Warbreaker Annotations (Dec. 22, 2010)

Ch 57:

Quote

“Nobody ever expects it,” Vasher whispered, stepping forward. “Breath is worth a fortune. To put it into someone, then kill them, is to lose more wealth than most men will ever know. They never expect it.”

[Nightstar The Bright]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

It heals you. That's how investiture works - your immune system gets a massive boost and kills diseases within moments. While at 3rd Heightening you are practically immune to normal illnesses, you can still be affected by strong toxins and poisons - that's why Lemex could be killed, he was poisoned, he wasn't ill. 

Why would you pass your Breaths around? They are worth fortune, why would you assume the guy you're giving them to, will return them to you? It's like passing a million dollars for someone to hold and expecting they will just give it back, if you ask nicely. That won't work. 

Makes me wonder if modern day Nalthis has hospitals just passing breaths around, and when your healed you have to give it back. Why would you assume to get the breaths back? Because that’s the law/they don’t really have a choice because otherwise they get locked up etc. You can definitely give a million dollars to a sick person, and demand it back after they’re healed, this is the way the law works, basically give it back or become a criminal.

[alder24]

2 minutes ago, Nightstar The Bright said:

Makes me wonder if modern day Nalthis has hospitals just passing breaths around, and when your healed you have to give it back. Why would you assume to get the breaths back? Because that’s the law/they don’t really have a choice because otherwise they get locked up etc.

How would you make them give your Breaths back? They can Awaken clothes, sheets or some other objects and jump out of the window. Screaming "that's illegal" doesn't work when you give people superpowers and expect them to be nice. It's simply too risky and there are better, cheaper cosmere ways of healing.

[Nightstar The Bright]

15 minutes ago, alder24 said:

How would you make them give your Breaths back? They can Awaken clothes, sheets or some other objects and jump out of the window

Well… it’s unlikely that many people are that good at awakening, nonetheless though, this is the same thing as giving people guns in a gun store, people aren’t randomly going to shoot and kill everybody, even if they can. People tend to follow the rules, and certainly don’t want to become criminals (except the occasional person). 

19 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Screaming "that's illegal" doesn't work when you give people superpowers and expect them to be nice

Well no screaming wouldn’t work, but hunting them down with police would, besides people are generally nice, they won’t run or kill you the moment they get the breath. Also awakening isn’t that much like a real superpower, one person with a couple hundred breath can’t destroy an entire city.

 

28 minutes ago, alder24 said:

It's simply too risky and there are better, cheaper cosmere ways of healing.

I really don’t see why it is too risky, the chance people run off with the breath is small, and the chance they escape capture is even smaller. Now are these other methods really cheaper? Because passing breaths around is fairly cheap, and gold feruchemy needs to be charged, which takes a long time. To use stormlight you must be a radiant and for progression you need stormlight, as well as a radiant or a fabrial. To heal using the dor you will need to use one of the invested arts on Sel that can heal. All of these have significant drawbacks, although Breath also has these, they are still fairly cheap as you only need to collect them once. 

[alder24]

7 minutes ago, Nightstar The Bright said:

Well… it’s unlikely that many people are that good at awakening, nonetheless though, this is the same thing as giving people guns in a gun store, people aren’t randomly going to shoot and kill everybody, even if they can. People tend to follow the rules, and certainly don’t want to become criminals (except the occasional person). 

No, I'm not going to discuss guns and gun related crimes again. It's a really, really bad example. Just look at news and that is the end of this discussion (it's against the site's policy to discuss politics).

41 minutes ago, Nightstar The Bright said:

Well no screaming wouldn’t work, but hunting them down with police would, besides people are generally nice, they won’t run or kill you the moment they get the breath. Also awakening isn’t that much like a real superpower, one person with a couple hundred breath can’t destroy an entire city.

A person doesn't need to start killing, they just need to get out of the building, which is easy if you have Breaths. Then use Breaths as bribes and leave the country escaping its jurisdiction or hide in the criminal underground. Or not - D.B. Cooper, with today's 1.5 mil $, was never found. A chance of this happening and losing fortune is just too big for this to work, even if most people won't do that. The chance of someone bringing a bomb on a plane is small, yet there are still limitations on liquids in your carry-on baggage and bombing attacks on a plane still are happening. Even if you catch this Breath thief you have no guarantee that he gives you Breaths back, he can keep them indefinitely and you still lose fortune. It's simply too risky.

10 minutes ago, Nightstar The Bright said:

I really don’t see why it is too risky, the chance people run off with the breath is small, and the chance they escape capture is even smaller. Now are these other methods really cheaper?

A single Breath can feed the family of 8 for an entire year (Jewels). Breaths are worth a literal fortune. They aren't cheap. Not to mention that being a Drab isn't good for you and has bad consequences to both your mental and physical health - people will be less willing to sell them when they become aware of it.

Losing 600 Breaths or so is a disaster that can't be easily replenished. Even staff members can easily steal Breaths. All it takes is to put Breaths in their clothes and walk out of the hospital - nobody would even know. Even a small risk is too much with that kind of fortune.

Cosmere spoiler:

Spoiler

18 minutes ago, Nightstar The Bright said:

and gold feruchemy needs to be charged, which takes a long time. To use stormlight you must be a radiant and for progression you need stormlight, as well as a radiant or a fabrial. To heal using the dor you will need to use one of the invested arts on Sel that can heal. All of these have significant drawbacks, although Breath also has these, they are still fairly cheap as you only need to collect them once. 

Both Malwish medallions and Rosharan Fabrials are much better and cheaper alternatives - they are tech, which doesn't require people to sacrifice a part of their soul to function, and can be potentially fuelled by any investiture. Medallions can be easily replenished if you have a group of people willing to serve as the source (e.g. hospital staff or paid employees), Fabrials are even cheaper, they just need a source of investiture and heal much, much better than Heightenings ever can. Both can heal your wounds, toxins and damage to the soul and mind. They also aren't worth a fortune, nor do they tempt people, nor can they be used as weapons, so risks of losing them are minimal and can be easily replaced.

 

Corruption exists, criminals and thieves exist, scammers exist, desperate or opportunistic people exist. Vasher and Lemex were literally criminals and got their Breaths illegally by seizing the opportunity. A healing method like this would attract all sorts of people that see this as an incredible opportunity to get rich fast and easy. Just because most people are generally honest and law-abiding, doesn't mean that you should trust them with wealth like that. Nobody will give you a million dollar loan if you can't prove that you can pay it off - being nice doesn't work. 

Breath healing like this would be available only for the richest, who can afford buying 600-2500 Breaths. They can deposit the money first and get them back when they return Breaths, with some loss to a payment for the service. But that's still stupid idea as they can literally buy and always have this amount of Breaths and be forever immune to any illness, poisoning or even aging.

We won't reach conclusion, we won't agree. I don't have that much faith in people, that's not how the world works.

[Nightstar The Bright]

10 hours ago, alder24 said:

No, I'm not going to discuss guns and gun related crimes again. It's a really, really bad example. Just look at news and that is the end of this discussion (it's against the site's policy to discuss politics).

11 hours ago, Nightstar The Bright said:

Again? But nonetheless, the amount of people successfully stealing breaths would be very small, and could easily be made smaller through enough security.

 

10 hours ago, alder24 said:

person doesn't need to start killing, they just need to get out of the building, which is easy if you have Breaths. Then use Breaths as bribes and leave the country escaping its jurisdiction or hide in the criminal underground. Or not - D.B. Cooper, with today's 1.5 mil $, was never found. A chance of this happening and losing fortune is just too big for this to work, even if most people won't do that. The chance of someone bringing a bomb on a plane is small, yet there are still limitations on liquids in your carry-on baggage and bombing attacks on a plane still are happening. Even if you catch this Breath thief you have no guarantee that he gives you Breaths back, he can keep them indefinitely and you still lose fortune. It's simply

Getting out of the building could prove difficult, I don’t see how just having breath would make it easy, not everyone can awaken and as stated before enough security will prevent all but the rarest of the rarest from escaping. Once again, hiding and leaving the country while being hunted by police isn’t easy. Enough security in the buildings, multiple checkpoints, people checking if i you have anything awakened/have breaths etc. Actually there is a good guarantee they’ll give the breath back. They’d give it back for multiple reasons, torture/a lesser sentence etc etc, he won’t be able to keep them indefinitely.

 

10 hours ago, alder24 said:

A single Breath can feed the family of 8 for an entire year (Jewels). Breaths are worth a literal fortune. They aren't cheap. Not to mention that being a Drab isn't good for you and has bad consequences to both your mental and physical health - people will be less willing to sell them when they become aware of it.

Losing 600 Breaths or so is a disaster that can't be easily replenished. Even staff members can easily steal Breaths. All it takes is to put Breaths in their clothes and walk out of the hospital - nobody would even know. Even a small risk is too much with that kind of fortune.

well, there will always be people selling their breaths, and a lot more would be available (population growth). 
 

enough security bla bla bla lmao. All the points you make here are very real, but that happens in our world as well, and there are still shops selling these items, jewelry shops etc. Enough security will prevent most people from running off.

10 hours ago, alder24 said:

Corruption exists, criminals and thieves exist, scammers exist, desperate or opportunistic people exist. Vasher and Lemex were literally criminals and got their Breaths illegally by seizing the opportunity. A healing method like this would attract all sorts of people that see this as an incredible opportunity to get rich fast and easy. Just because most people are generally honest and law-abiding, doesn't mean that you should trust them with wealth like that. Nobody will give you a million dollar loan if you can't prove that you can pay it off - being nice doesn't work. 

Lemex just bought his breaths right? I mean with stolen money but he didn’t steal his breaths. I mean stealing breaths wouldn’t be an easy way way to get rich, sure it might still be one of the ways people get rich, but not more then banks and jewelry shops in our world. People might very well give you a million dollars as long as you give it back in a minute and are being watched by security.

 

10 hours ago, alder24 said:

We won't reach conclusion, we won't agree

Optimistic.

 

10 hours ago, alder24 said:

I don't have that much faith in people, that's not how the world works

Neither do I, but I do have enough faith in security and the police etc.