Non-humans and unkeyed metalminds

[Ravenclawjedi42]

In an RP I am a part of, one of my characters is a skeletal squirrel. My original plan was for him to communicate with the current characters via unkeyed duralumin metalminds, but I wasn't sure whether this would actually be feasible, and as such I began to wonder what we know about non-humans using metalminds. This goes for both species like chasmfiends, mistwraiths or other (for lack of a better term) non-intelligent animals, and also for species like the singers or kandra or spren.

[alder24]

3 hours ago, Ookla thePresentParticiple said:

In an RP I am a part of, one of my characters is a skeletal squirrel. My original plan was for him to communicate with the current characters via unkeyed duralumin metalminds, but I wasn't sure whether this would actually be feasible, and as such I began to wonder what we know about non-humans using metalminds.

What do you mean non-human? Animals? Not possible generally, they lack sufficient intelligence to use powers even if they got them somehow. Non-human intelligent species like Singers, Kandra or Sho-Del? Fully possible and we've already seen Kandra using Metallic Arts in SoS.

To use metalminds you either need to be a  Feruchemist (by birth or Hemalurgy), or have unsealed Malwish metalminds. It's just invested art, like any other.

Note: Below in my post I'm using the term "human level" meaning not just humans, but all kinds of sapient, humanoid species like Singers, Kandra or Sho-Del etc.

A normal animal would need to become really intelligent, comparable to human levels, to be able to use invested arts given to them - you can do that with Hemalurgy but that's a brutal way.

Spoiler

Questioner

Is a chull able to receive some form of Investiture? ...I'm thinking of Scadrial... Would it have the presence of mind to be able to use the abilities?

Brandon Sanderson

Not as it is right now. But you can see in the way that Ryshadium are working that we have animals that are reaching beyond-animal intelligence. Aviar are the same way. And it is possible to assume that you could get to the point where you could use such powers. But none of them are there yet. But the Aviar kind of use their powers, so I guess some of them are. So, yes, I will say that's possible.

Skyward Seattle signing (Nov. 10, 2018)

 

3 hours ago, Ookla thePresentParticiple said:

This goes for both species like chasmfiends, mistwraiths or other (for lack of a better term) non-intelligent animals, and also for species like the singers or kandra or spren.

Chasmfiends or Ryshadium are still not intelligent enough to be on a human level. They have above animal intelligence, but they are still not sapient to do that.

Spoiler

Questioner

Would a macaw be able to become a Radiant? Or do you need sentience?

Brandon Sanderson

You need sapience. A macaw could not become a Knight Radiant. A macaw could, theoretically, enter a symbiotic spren bond, which would have different effects. Like, Ryshadium or even most of the larger greatshells don't have sapience. But a lot of creatures on Roshar do have what I would term an in-between step between human-level intelligence and animal-level intelligence on Earth. Ryshadium are in this; chasmfiends, as well, are smarter than an animal can get on Earth.

Tor Instagram Livestream (Nov. 25, 2020)

Mistwraiths are mentally stunted people. They have a mental blockade. I would say for them it's also impossible.

Spoiler

NinjaMeTimbers

How intelligent is a mistwraith? Could you raise and train mistwraiths like dogs or horses, controlling what forms they take by the bones you give them? Would you be able to train yourself a horsewraith steed by giving it only the bones of a horse?

Brandon Sanderson

This is feasible. One thing to keep in mind is that mistwraiths are people who have a blockage between the Physical and the Cognitive Realm, messing with their ability to think. Think of them as mentally-stunted people. There's enough there to train, but then you have to dig into the ethics of it...

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 27, 2012)

Spren - True Spren should be able to do that. They are intelligent and sapient, and as seen by Syl in early chapters of WoK, they can use some simple Surges. Lesser spren aren't sapient, they aren’t intelligent enough. But they are a piece of raw investiture, using invested arts, especially genetic ones, might be different for them.

 

What you need for this to work is a human level intelligence. You can achieve that through different means. One is Hemalurgy, have your squirrel being spiked by a copper spike or two, giving it enough intelligence. Second is being a Kandra in a squirrel's body - they're either on some mission, or they've liked being a squirrel so much, that they've stayed like that for centuries and they've forgotten how to switch back or change their body to create a human-like vocal cords. Thirdly make it a squirrel that lives/lived on Roshar and had entered a symbiotic bond with some kind of spren that increased its intelligence to human-levels. Lastly, Tress spoilers:

Spoiler

Your squirrel is a human who was cursed by the Sorceress from Lumar, therefore is as intelligent and sapient as human.

Or ignore it and have fun, that's always an option.  

Edited November 30, 2023 by alder24

[Through The Living Grub He/Him]

Someone had a post about a hemalurgic beaver. You need several beavers to find bind points and teach it to use the powers and store memories of using them in a Coppermind. I don't know much more or intricate details but someone had a discussion about this.

[Ravenclawjedi42]

Okay, thank you both.