Atilium she/her Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 I was on another forum a few days ago and I came across an interesting thread about magic-less fantasy. There were a lot of interesting conversations and debates going on but the biggest one was: If you remove magic, is it still fantasy? So what do you guys think? Other questions: Have you read any fantasy without magic? Were they any good? Would you WANT to read a magic-less fantasy? What counts as ‘magic’? Is a fantasy with dragons but no other magic a ‘magic-less’ fantasy? Other thoughts on the concept? I haven’t read ASoIaF, but I understand (please correct me if I’m wrong) that there’s very little actual magic in the story, just “magical” things like dragons and demons. And it seems to be working for George RR Martin. The first Dagger and Coin book by Daniel Abraham (the only one of the series that I’ve read, unfortunately) contained very little magic and I seriously enjoyed that book. The Narnia books had a few magical items, some ‘magical’ beings- and obviously Aslan and The White Witch can do magic - but otherwise is quite empty of magic. Personally, I think it’s perfectly possible. I love magic – especially if it’s done with the finesse of Brandon Sanderson or Brent Weeks – but I’d be filly willing to read a magic-less story if it was done well. Provided the characters are interesting, anything can work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent he/him Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Reddit to the rescue! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left he/him Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 There was a thread on this a while back, can't seem to find it at the moment though. Ranger's Apprentice is a very successful, and actually very enjoyable, teen series that feels a ton like fantasy, but actually doesn't have a single drop of magic in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traceria she/her Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Anne McCaffrey's Pern books are fantasy without magic, especially if you ever read the ones that chronicle the early days of Pern. They're kind of a sci-fi/fantasy hybrid. Also, I ran across this today on the TOR site, which makes me kind of excited. (I'm like a month behind when it was posted on the site, but that's just par for the course for me.) I hope it comes to fruition! Similarly, for being fully in the fantasy genre, Lord of the Rings doesn't show much magic "on screen." You have Gandalf doing a little bit here and there, but not what we've come to think of as flashy magic as other books show it. Similarly, you know Sauron has to use something magical to get all that evil into the One Ring and to bind the others; however, Tolkien was far less concerned with how magic was done than he was with bigger themes. (Go read this book sometime.) Also, I'm in the middle of reading the most recently published and currently last book of the Thursday Next series (hopefully more are forthcoming), and this is a speculative fantasy series. A lot of things that are done or possible in the world are definitely fantastical, but they're the product of technological advances or imagination, not magic. If you've never read this series and like something a little quirky and witty, check it out! Jasper Fforde is the author. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgedancer he/him Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 Well as much as I love fantasy, magic and the like, a book doesn´t have to be fantasy to be good, so yes both little and no magic can make for a good book. Good fantasy books lite on the magic I know and you didn´t list would be a Natural history of Dragons (the only fantastic element being the exsistance of dragons, which get studies like any other animal) and the Lies of Locke Lamora (There is a mage in the book but he serves as an antagonist and the amount of magic he does do is limited, if potent). I only read the first book in both series, so I don´t know if it stays that way but the sequels stand high on my to read list. On the question is it still fantasy, if you remove the magic, easy just look if there are fantastic elements in the story. Magic -> fantasy! Dragons/other magical animals -> fantasy! Magic items like a flying carpent -> fantasy! and you get the idea. That´s why we have different classifications such as high and low fantasy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traceria she/her Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 On the question is it still fantasy, if you remove the magic, easy just look if there are fantastic elements in the story. Magic -> fantasy! Dragons/other magical animals -> fantasy! Magic items like a flying carpent -> fantasy! and you get the idea. That´s why we have different classifications such as high and low fantasy. I like this list! The simplified version can just be your first sentence: Are their fantastic elements? If yes, it's fantasy. If no, it's not. So, to use Thursday Next as an example, one fantastic element is the ability to travel into the Book World. There's no magical explanation, and portions of the series are actually spent trying to figure out a scientific way to do it (with mixed success). However, it's just natural for some to be able to travel to the Book World. This is definitely fantastic in nature. And the series is definitely in the fantasy genre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightsworn Panda he/him Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Reddit to the rescue! 4chan to the res- WAIT NONONONONO! Most of the people above have already listed off what I had in mind. If you like historical fiction/war books, try Simon Scarrow's books. not magic, but still fantasy. I could always recommend manga/anime if you're into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Well, for anybody who was wondering, the original thread from the CC section is right here. It didn't get that far, only about 8 replies to its name, but for anybody who wanted to know, there it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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