777 may not be so lucky after all... Will Kaladin's promise haunt him?

[Arondell]

We have to remember Kaladin does not make it to Heartstone: he runs out of stormlight in Aladar. I strongly suspect he will meet up with a few "important people" or he may transit in a large city on the way there. If he is found by the authorities (not Roshone, I am thinking higher ranked lighteyed), he may get into trouble.

 

 

 

I think Kal will end up in charge by the sheer force of things. He will have to earn his leadership, it won't be handed down to him. As for Kohlinar, I don't know what came to Dalinar's mind to ask Kal to stop there... Nobody there will ever listen to Kal or even give him a say. Kal is ignorant in lighteye protocol and is not at ease amongst them. I don't think he is the good person to calm Kohlinar.

 

Errr...Regarding Kalidans location I'll put it under a spoiler.

 

It is made pretty clear in the reading that Kaladin was already on the outskirts of Hearthstone.  He spotted where some of the farming hills were and even recognized a brook.

 

As for Kholinar I doubt they would put him into a position of authority as such but since Dalinar is in direct communication with Kholinar via spanreed I would be very surprised if he hadn't sent word ahead to expect Kalidan's eventual appearance. 

Edited August 26, 2014 by Arondell

[maxal]

Errr...Regarding Kalidans location I'll put it under a spoiler.

 

It is made pretty clear in the reading that Kaladin was already on the outskirts of Hearthstone.  He spotted where some of the farming hills were and even recognized a brook.

 

As for Kholinar I doubt they would put him into a position of authority as such but since Dalinar is in direct communication with Kholinar via spanreed I would be very surprised if he hadn't sent word ahead to expect Kalidan's eventual appearance. 

 

Sorry. I edited my previous message for spoilers.

 

Alright, so he may be closer then I expected then.

 

Dalinar may have send a message to Kohlinar, but I doubt the queen will simply accept this low born darkeye (even if his eyes turn blue with his yields his shardblade, he still is a darkeye) as a figure of authority... It could be they won't even let him inside the palace.

[Arondell]

Sorry. I edited my previous message for spoilers.

 

Alright, so he may be closer then I expected then.

 

Dalinar may have send a message to Kohlinar, but I doubt the queen will simply accept this low born darkeye (even if his eyes turn blue with his yields his shardblade, he still is a darkeye) as a figure of authority... It could be they won't even let him inside the palace.

 

 

Granted from the interlude the queen hasn't proven to be the brightest sphere in the goblet.  On the other hand if Dalinar Kholin and probably Elhokar as well instructs the queen that the guy that killed the Assassin in White is the captain of Dalinar's personal guard and should be greeted as such...well...she would have to be a whole new level of dumb to slam the proverbial door in his face.

 

For that matter I would think the news that the Assassin in White had been killed by one Kaladin Stormblessed might well have spread over much of the world now via spanreed.  That is world shaking news right there.

[Chrono]

Queen proverbially and literally slams the door in Kaladin's face? He's got a Shardblade, so he can just cut open the door. However, is the Queen even still in control? There are riots through Kholinar before the Everstorm comes. The city is in a state of sheer chaos and anarchy. A natural disaster the size of Hurricane Katrina will not help things. I'm seriously expecting her to be dead, along with her son, when/if Kaladin gets there. 

 

As for Kaladin's credibility in Hearthstone, the Shardblade alone should be enough to convince people he's okay. Remember, Shardblades being won by darkeyes is insanely rare. Kaladin remembers a grand total of four darkeyes who managed to win one. He even says that it's a legendary event when he gets his. To the people of Hearthstone, a Shardblade cannot just be stolen. It's inconceivable to them. It'd be like telling my friends that I stole the entire cache of gold in Fort Knox. 

 

Now, will Roshone spin this to his advantage and call Kaladin a thief (if he's even still alive)? Most definitely. But I think that by the time that Kaladin gets there, the people of Hearthstone will have had enough of his crap. Or they'll be desperate for any sort of help. Keep in mind that their village has been devastated. Seeing a familiar face, even if it's the face of a slave who carries a suspicious Shardblade, will be a welcome sight for them. 

[maxal]

Granted from the interlude the queen hasn't proven to be the brightest sphere in the goblet.  On the other hand if Dalinar Kholin and probably Elhokar as well instructs the queen that the guy that killed the Assassin in White is the captain of Dalinar's personal guard and should be greeted as such...well...she would have to be a whole new level of dumb to slam the proverbial door in his face.

 

Yeah well, I kinda see her reaching that level of dumb   Besides, it's not just the queen, there are her advisers, her ardents and plenty people moving around her who won't be thrilled to see Kal.

 

 

Queen proverbially and literally slams the door in Kaladin's face? He's got a Shardblade, so he can just cut open the door. However, is the Queen even still in control? There are riots through Kholinar before the Everstorm comes. The city is in a state of sheer chaos and anarchy. A natural disaster the size of Hurricane Katrina will not help things. I'm seriously expecting her to be dead, along with her son, when/if Kaladin gets there.

 

The queen may not be in control anymore, providing she ever was to begin with, but surely there are some people of authority gravitating around her. I doubt these would welcome Kal with open arms. We must not forget Kal is a threat: he is a darkeye, low born, but given the position of a lighteye. The fact he holds a shardblade does not warranty the incredible amount of trust Dalinar puts in him. To make a comparison, do you think the Kohlins would have sent Moash to quell the rebellion? He is a shardbearer and a ligtheye, but that it not enough.

 

Yes, Kal could break through by sheer force, but where would that put him? It won't grant him the authority he needs or perhaps it will, but not because he earned it or deserved it: because he will have become the biggest wolf in castle. Besides, using weapons to enforce his will would place him on equal footing with the Blackthorn. It may work, but it won't have the Dalinar stamp of approval on it.

 

 

As for Kaladin's credibility in Hearthstone, the Shardblade alone should be enough to convince people he's okay. Remember, Shardblades being won by darkeyes is insanely rare. Kaladin remembers a grand total of four darkeyes who managed to win one. He even says that it's a legendary event when he gets his. To the people of Hearthstone, a Shardblade cannot just be stolen. It's inconceivable to them. It'd be like telling my friends that I stole the entire cache of gold in Fort Knox. 

 

Now, will Roshone spin this to his advantage and call Kaladin a thief (if he's even still alive)? Most definitely. But I think that by the time that Kaladin gets there, the people of Hearthstone will have had enough of his crap. Or they'll be desperate for any sort of help. Keep in mind that their village has been devastated. Seeing a familiar face, even if it's the face of a slave who carries a suspicious Shardblade, will be a welcome sight for them. 

 

People in Heartstone hated him and ressented him. Will a few years spent away have changed anything about it? Will the lost of his two sons be enough for the people to finally warm up to Lirin? Considering all that goes against him, I still think it is plausible they would take Kal for a thief. Just because nobody ever stole a shardblade, does not mean it is not possible.

 

We don't know if the village got devastated. We don't know if it is automatic all parshmen change to voidbringer upon passing through the everstorm.

 

I still maintain Kal will have some serious issues in Heartstone or in the way to Heartstone due to his unusual status, his slash brand, his tattered clothing that will make him look like a beggar and not to forget the astronomic amount of money he carries on him.

[Arondell]

I agree that there will be a lot of distrust aimed Kaladin's way.  Where I disagree is that I think that distrust will be because he is a Radiant not because he is a darkeyes with a shard.  For that matter since he can instantly change his eye color any time he summons Syl as a shard object then it would be pretty hard to call him a darkeyes when he is standing there with eyes lighter then anyone else.  That and they glow to boot.  Given that he often unconsciously breaths in stormlight while he is walking around he'll have to make an effort to not have his eyes turn light when he is around spheres.

 

Hearthstone's exact status is a bit of a question mark for the moment.   Given that there were parshmen servants in the town it could be very bad indeed.  The reading gave us enough info to suspect there will likely be quite a bit of structural damage from the storm moving the wrong way.  The buildings weren't designed to handle those kind of stresses.

 

As for the social situation in Hearthstone.  Well that is total guess work.  It entirely depends on what Mr. Sanderson wants Kaladin to be facing and he isn't talking yet.  I do hope is that it doesn't take up to much of the book.   A bit like Shallan's trip through the frost lands in Words of Radiance.  Important for her development but it was resolved in the first half of the story.

[maxal]

I agree that there will be a lot of distrust aimed Kaladin's way.  Where I disagree is that I think that distrust will be because he is a Radiant not because he is a darkeyes with a shard.  For that matter since he can instantly change his eye color any time he summons Syl as a shard object then it would be pretty hard to call him a darkeyes when he is standing there with eyes lighter then anyone else.  That and they glow to boot.  Given that he often unconsciously breaths in stormlight while he is walking around he'll have to make an effort to not have his eyes turn light when he is around spheres.

 

Possibly. However what bugs me is the amount of effort I felt Brandon put into describing Kal current predicament: the fact he was not wearing his official uniform must have been put there for a reason. I just have this gut reaching feeling all of this will come into play.

 

As for the eye color, we do not know much about its working. Do we know if there is a minimum amount of stormlight you need to draw in for your eyes to change color? It could be he is never able to recharge his spheres for a while and he is stuck not being able to flash his lighteyes.

 

 

As for the social situation in Hearthstone.  Well that is total guess work.  It entirely depends on what Mr. Sanderson wants Kaladin to be facing and he isn't talking yet.  I do hope is that it doesn't take up to much of the book.   A bit like Shallan's trip through the frost lands in Words of Radiance.  Important for her development but it was resolved in the first half of the story.

 

I agree. I would not want Kaladin's entire story arc focusing on Heartstone. He has to come back with the main crew before the end of the book. I am somehow forecasting Kal settling things in Heartstone with some hardships but still he'll prevail, leaving light hearted and almost happy (for once), arriving gleefully in Urithiru only to see the crap unfolded while he was gone.

[Arondell]

Possibly. However what bugs me is the amount of effort I felt Brandon put into describing Kal current predicament: the fact he was not wearing his official uniform must have been put there for a reason. I just have this gut reaching feeling all of this will come into play.

 

As for the eye color, we do not know much about its working. Do we know if there is a minimum amount of stormlight you need to draw in for your eyes to change color? It could be he is never able to recharge his spheres for a while and he is stuck not being able to flash his lighteyes.

 

 

 

As Mr. Sanderson pointed out his early drafts are often a bit wordy.

 

 

But just be aware, usually, particularly at the beginning of a book, I overwrite a bit, a little too much description, a little too much backstory, and I have to trim that down.

 

As for how much stormlight he needs to change eye color.

 

 

 

 

“Your eyes are brown again,” she noted.  It took a few years without touching stormlight or summoning his Shardblade, once he did either thing his eyes would bleed to a glassy light blue, almost glowing.  A few hours later they’d fade again.  Syl found the variation fascinating.

 

No minimum is mentioned.  So I'm going with any amount until  stated otherwise.  If I had to speculate I would say that with the third oath he is right on the edge of his eyes becoming permanently light.  Though it might also be a case of it not becoming truly permanent until the fifth oath.

 

[xland44]

Am I the only one who thinks that Lirin might not even be in hearthstone? Considering that Roshone would have continued tormenting them , he probably used the spheres of his to move to a different city/town/village

[Moogle]

Am I the only one who thinks that Lirin might not even be in hearthstone? Considering that Roshone would have continued tormenting them , he probably used the spheres of his to move to a different city/town/village

 

I don't think that would make for optimal drama in the story. Kaladin meeting his parents after losing Tien and ruining his father's dreams will make for a powerful scene, so it's bound to happen.

 

This isn't exactly an argument against it, I guess. Still, Lirin was extremely stubborn about staying in Hearthstone when Kal brought up the idea of moving - despite the fact that it would have been better for his children. So I suppose with his children gone he might have become even more stubborn about staying?

[18th Shard]

Dalinar said you don't imprison a Shardbearer. You either kill them or let them stay free because they can just get free. Kaladin isn't going to let himself get locked up. He's going to have to learn to lead.

Edited August 29, 2014 by 18th Shard

[maxal]

As Mr. Sanderson pointed out his early drafts are often a bit wordy.

 

Perhaps you are right. I was so alarm by the amount of descriptive elements he put in there I felt it must be relevant. I still think Kal's current condition will trigger some hardships.

 

 

I don't think that would make for optimal drama in the story. Kaladin meeting his parents after losing Tien and ruining his father's dreams will make for a powerful scene, so it's bound to happen.

 

This isn't exactly an argument against it, I guess. Still, Lirin was extremely stubborn about staying in Hearthstone when Kal brought up the idea of moving - despite the fact that it would have been better for his children. So I suppose with his children gone he might have become even more stubborn about staying?

 

I agree. Lirin is most probably still in Heartstone.It would be anti-climatic to have him move out just when he is about to reunited with his last surviving son. I am pretty sure he is still there as well.

 

 

Dalinar said you don't imprison a Shardbearer. You either kill them or let them stay free because they can just get free. Kaladin isn't going to let himself get locked up. He's going to have to learn to lead.

 

The imprisonment card was played twice already. I doubt Brandon will use it on Kal a third time. Besides, Kal was quite fixed on "never being put in prison again", so if they try, he may go mad.

[maxal]

OK Houston? I hope that was an accidental downvote, really.

[Patrick Star]

OK Houston? I hope that was an accidental downvote, really.

 

Probably scrolling on a phone.  It's pretty easy to accidentally tap the button when you swipe (or go to swipe).

[maxal]

Probably scrolling on a phone.  It's pretty easy to accidentally tap the button when you swipe (or go to swipe).

 

Yeah I figured as much. Those phone makes it hard sometimes.

[kaellok]

 

I agree. Lirin is most probably still in Heartstone.It would be anti-climatic to have him move out just when he is about to reunited with his last surviving son. I am pretty sure he is still there as well.

If Lirin moved, it was likely well before now.  Kaladin has basically done nothing that we are aware of to keep track of his parents since Tien died.  It's been more than one or two years since then.  It's definitely true that Kaladin finding out they aren't there would be anticlimactic for both Kaladin, and us as the readers.  However, a more interesting way to play with the idea of his parents moving would be for Kaladin to find them in an entirely different area than he expected.  Say that he gets to Kholinar before Hearthstone, and then runs into his parents--the reactions he has will be substantially different than if he has had enough time, that day, to mentally prepare himself.  There's nothing like a shock or surprise like that to throw you off your game and reveal things that you would otherwise keep secret.

 

I fully expect that Kaladin will meet with his parents, or visit their graves, in Book 3, regardless of anything else that is happening, or where they might be.

 

Edited for clarity

Edited August 30, 2014 by kaellok

[hoser]

Sorry maxal, accidentally down voted the above on my mobile phone. Could someone please correct my mess up. Thanks

[maxal]

If Lirin moved, it was likely well before now.  Kaladin has basically done nothing that we are aware of to keep track of his parents since Tien died.  It's been more than one or two years since then.  It's definitely true that Kaladin finding out they aren't there would be anticlimactic for both Kaladin, and us as the readers.  However, a more interesting way to play with the idea of his parents moving would be for Kaladin to find them in an entirely different area than he expected.  Say that he gets to Kholinar before Hearthstone, and then runs into his parents--the reactions he has will be substantially different than if he has had enough time, that day, to mentally prepare himself.  There's nothing like a shock or surprise like that to throw you off your game and reveal things that you would otherwise keep secret.

 

I fully expect that Kaladin will meet with his parents, or visit their graves, in Book 3, regardless of anything else that is happening, or where they might be.

 

Edited for clarity

 

Actually, I think we have a WoB stating Kal's parents are still alive, so I do not think Kal will visit their graves anytime soon I personally would not like for Kal to come back to Heartstone only to find his parents gone.... I fell such a ploy would prelude Kaladin going onto a journey to find his parents and I do not think this would make an overly interesting story, considering all else that is happening in Roshar.

 

However, I would love to see Kal come back, meet his parents and be greeted by his new 3-4 years sister/brother I would adore if Lirin and Hesina decided to have another child following the lost of their sons. It would give Kal a second chance at being a big brother, almost like having Tien again. Wouldn't that be sweet?

 

 

Sorry maxal, accidentally down voted the above on my mobile phone. Could someone please correct my mess up. Thanks

 

That's OK    I was just surprised by it. My post was so inoffensive Stupid phones

[xland44]

Actually, I think we have a WoB stating Kal's parents are still alive, so I do not think Kal will visit their graves anytime soon I personally would not like for Kal to come back to Heartstone only to find his parents gone.... I fell such a ploy would prelude Kaladin going onto a journey to find his parents and I do not think this would make an overly interesting story, considering all else that is happening in Roshar.

 

However, I would love to see Kal come back, meet his parents and be greeted by his new 3-4 years sister/brother I would adore if Lirin and Hesina decided to have another child following the lost of their sons. It would give Kal a second chance at being a big brother, almost like having Tien again. Wouldn't that be sweet?

 

 

 

That's OK    I was just surprised by it. My post was so inoffensive Stupid phones

That would just be sad, so much has changed since he visited, a surprise little brother would be even more surprising, he might feel like he doesn't belong anymore or something

[maxal]

That would just be sad, so much has changed since he visited, a surprise little brother would be even more surprising, he might feel like he doesn't belong anymore or something

 

Or feel he is given another chance at being a big brother...... He may truly be happy about it. Kal, happy, I'd love to see that.

[Windreader]

Kal? Happy? Impossible!

[maxal]

Kal? Happy? Impossible!

 

Nothing is impossible: I am a believer

[Rybal]

I think these are interesting ideas. I especially like the first one. Kaladin needs closure with Laral and I hope he will get it.

 

I do think you are right in saying the whole honor-revenge arc is not entirely finish for Kaladin. However, I do hope he will deal with Roshone in a honorable way: he will demote him by demonstrating he is a better leader. He will earn his position as opposed to have being hand over. I will be even more bold to say he may be the first stone into the future Alethkar: a more egalitarian society where eye color and birth rank does not matter so much.

 

Considering how much the first two books dealt with Kal's focus on protection, it stands to reason that the next book should have more of an emphasis on leadership.

 

Some have pointed out the fact that Kal doesn't have his uniform. I think that he's going to have to earn his leadership position with the people that knew him growing up (always a difficult situation). He's had positional authority and has demonstrated his ability to lead with the bridgemen, but this is going to be a very tough thing to deal with. There will be those that think he's acting above himself and others will still treat him as he was 5 years ago when he left, ignoring any changes in the mean time.