Link between Selish magic systems

[Ravenclawjedi42]

I was thinking about the magic system in a book I’m writing, and realized that it was slightly similar to Forgery, in that you take magic ink, write/draw with it, and something happens. As I am currently developing which symbols do what, this got me thinking about what, in Forgery, you carve on the Soulstamp to convey meaning. As I don’t think we know this, I thought about this in Forgery and thought of a rune-like arcane symbol that has a specific meaning not decided by not-very invested entities that is carved into the stamp.

Almost like Aons.

Then, my brain started coming up with ways that all the Selish magic systems work with this. I never actually finished Elantris, but on the Coppermind I learned about Dakhor, where bones twist into “ancient Fjordell characters” that decide the effect of the magic. Perhaps this is how Hrovell potions are Invested. Bloodsealing we know very little about, but I think could work with this.

Thoughts? Is this very obvious and I just somehow never realized it? Am I completely off? How does ChaySan fit into all this?

[Treamayne]

On 10/29/2023 at 4:53 PM, Ravenclawjedi42 said:

I thought about this in Forgery and thought of a rune-like arcane symbol that has a specific meaning not decided by not-very invested entities that is carved into the stamp.

Almost like Aons.

The Aons (and likely every other Selish Language related to Manifestations of Investiture) were discovered, not created or developed. Also, we can guess that the same holds true for others (like MaiPon and Dakhor) since the Moon Scepter acts as a rosetta stone for Selish Languages. WoBs:

Spoiler

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

<snip>

Only Elantrians can draw Aons in the air, so someone taken by the Shaod must have developed the writing system. That is part of what makes writing a noble art in Arelon–drawing the Aons would have been associated with Elantrians. Most likely, the early Elantrians (who probably didn't even have Elantris back then) would have had to learn the Aons by trial and error, finding what each one did, and associating its meaning and sound with its effect. The language didn't develop, but was instead "discovered."

There are likely Aons that haven't even been found yet.

Quote

ParadoxicalZen

How exactly is the Moon Scepter linked to the Dor?

Brandon Sanderson

The Moon Scepter is-- I suppose I can canonize this, now. Okay you're getting one out of me. So the big thing about the Moon Scepter that it was-- It is a Rosetta stone for the [Selish] magics. Meaning it translates them from one to another, and what the different symbols mean, does that make sense.

 

On 10/29/2023 at 4:53 PM, Ravenclawjedi42 said:

How does ChaySan fit into all this?

We don't know much about ChayShan, except the implication that the movements are a way of writing in JinDo with the whole body (like Raoden increasing Aon Efficiency  by including line width while writing Aon Equations) - In the scene where it is shown (Ch 61) we see how the movements start glowing with Dor access right before Shuden strikes. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Argenti]

On 10/29/2023 at 6:19 PM, Treamayne said:

The Aons (and likely every other Selish Language related to Manifestations ov Investiture) were discovered, not created or developed. Also, we can guess that the same holds true for others (like MaiPon and Dakhor) since the Moon Scepter acts as a rosetta stone for SeliSh Languages. WoBs:

 

Well. There is this wob
 

Spoiler

DrogaKrolow

Couldn't you like-- Is there an Aon for define, definition? So like you could go and define some really long sequence of Aons and then assign it to a simple shape.

Brandon Sanderson

Right.

DrogaKrolow

Then draw the symbol, and would it work?

Brandon Sanderson

Right right, object-oriented. This is realistically plausible, you would have to write all this stuff and call the function and have this constantly in a state of kinetic Investiture. But that is reasonable. I mean it's not so far off from things they actually did with much fewer-- much fewer lines of code, if you wish, in the past. It's what Elantris itself was.

DrogaKrolow.pl interview (March 17, 2017)
(Edited to save space)

So it was kinda developed, but aons did form without human interaction.

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, Argenti said:

Well. There is this wob  

  Hide contents

DrogaKrolow

Couldn't you like-- Is there an Aon for define, definition? So like you could go and define some really long sequence of Aons and then assign it to a simple shape.

Brandon Sanderson

Right.

DrogaKrolow

Then draw the symbol, and would it work?

Brandon Sanderson

Right right, object-oriented. This is realistically plausible, you would have to write all this stuff and call the function and have this constantly in a state of kinetic Investiture. But that is reasonable. I mean it's not so far off from things they actually did with much fewer-- much fewer lines of code, if you wish, in the past. It's what Elantris itself was.

DrogaKrolow.pl interview (March 17, 2017)
(Edited to save space)

So it was kinda developed, but aons did form without human interaction.

Well, the way they use AonDor was developed (especially all the modifiers), like in the Ch 53:

Spoiler

Spirit didn’t respond, instead concentrating on his Aon. He drew differently from the way he had before, his fingers moving more dexterously and quickly. He finished the Aon with a small line near the bottom. It began to glow warmly, bathing Roial in its light. As Sarene watched, the edges of Roial’s wound seemed to pull together slightly. A scratch on Roial’s face disappeared, and several of the liver spots on his scalp faded.

Then the light fell away, the wound still belching blood with each futile pump of the duke’s dying heart.

Spirit cursed. “It’s too weak,” he said, desperately beginning another Aon. “And I haven’t studied the healing modifiers! I don’t know how to target just one part of the body.”

Roial reached up with a quivering arm and grabbed Spirit’s hand. The partially completed Aon faded away as the duke’s movement caused Spirit to make a mistake. Spirit did not start again, bowing his head as if weeping.

I was talking about the base Aons. They are discovered and the shape is, at least in part, determined by the land. Ch 49:

Spoiler

Instead of thinking about his loss, Raoden focused on the connection Sarene had made. He studied Aon after Aon, noticing other features of the landscape in their forms. Aon Eno, the character for water, included a wiggling line that matched the meanderings of the Aredel River. The character for wood—Aon Dii—included several circles that represented the southern forests.

The Aons were maps of the land, each one a slightly different rendering of the same general picture. Each one had the three basic lines—the coast line, the mountain line, and the dot for Lake Alonoe. Many often had a line at the bottom to represent the Kalomo River, which separated Arelon from Duladel.

Some of the features completely baffled him, however. Why did Aon Mea, the character for thoughtfulness, have an X that crossed somewhere in the middle of Eon Plantation? Why was Aon Rii specked with two dozen seemingly random dots? The answers might have been held in one of the library’s tomes, but so far he had found nothing in the way of explanation.

Also note, that in the WoB you quoted - the idea there is very similar to the way the Essence Marks work (TES Day 58 & 76)

Spoiler

Quote

“But you said you’d tested over a hundred,” Frava said, frowning. “You’ll only use twelve of those in the end?”

Shai laughed. “Twelve? To Forge an entire soul? Hardly. The final stamp, the one you will need to use on the emperor each morning, will be like … a linchpin, or the keystone of an arch. It will be the only one that will need to be placed on his skin, but it will connect a lattice of hundreds of other stamps.”

Shai reached to the side, taking out her book of notes, including initial sketches of the final stamps. “I’ll take these and stamp them onto a metal plate, then link that to the stamp you will place on Ashravan each day. He’ll need to keep the plate close at all times.”

“He’ll need to carry a metal plate with him,” Frava said dryly, “and he will need to be stamped each day? This will make it difficult for the man to live a normal life, don’t you think?”

“Being emperor makes it difficult for any man to live a normal life, I suspect. You will make it work. It’s customary for the plate to be designed as a piece of adornment. A large medallion, perhaps, or an upper-arm bracer with square sides. If you look at my own Essence Marks, you’ll notice they were done in the same way, and that the box contains a plate for each one.”

Quote

“You’re done?” Gaotona asked, sitting up straight. “Almost a month early! It’s—”

“I’m not done,” Shai said. “Now is the most difficult part. I have to carve those several hundred stamps in tiny detail, melding them together, then create a linchpin stamp. What I’ve done so far is like getting all of the paints ready, creating the color and figure studies. Now I have to put it all together. 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Treamayne

[Argenti]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

Well, the way they use AonDor was developed (especially all the modifiers, like in the Ch 53:

  Reveal hidden contents

Spirit didn’t respond, instead concentrating on his Aon. He drew differently from the way he had before, his fingers moving more dexterously and quickly. He finished the Aon with a small line near the bottom. It began to glow warmly, bathing Roial in its light. As Sarene watched, the edges of Roial’s wound seemed to pull together slightly. A scratch on Roial’s face disappeared, and several of the liver spots on his scalp faded.

Then the light fell away, the wound still belching blood with each futile pump of the duke’s dying heart.

Spirit cursed. “It’s too weak,” he said, desperately beginning another Aon. “And I haven’t studied the healing modifiers! I don’t know how to target just one part of the body.”

Roial reached up with a quivering arm and grabbed Spirit’s hand. The partially completed Aon faded away as the duke’s movement caused Spirit to make a mistake. Spirit did not start again, bowing his head as if weeping.

I was talking about the base Aons. They are discovered and the shape is, at least in part, determined by the land.

Also note, that in the WoB you quoted - the idea there is very similar to the way the Essence Marks work (TES Day 58 & 76)

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Yeah that makes sense.