TheFinisher4Ever he/him Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 I've been thinking on this and I decided that Odium is not one of the three. My reason is voidbinding. The little bits and peices we know of voidbinding suggest that it is a mirror image of surgebinging. Now, one of the shards has to power voidbinding and I dont believe a shard from another world would power a magic system that mirrors another from a different world. I also highly doubt that cultivation is the one behind voidbinding. My current theory is that there was/is a third shard on Roshar and this shard is on the negative side like Ruin or Odium. This shard would be the force behind voidbinding. It would then make sense about there being roughly 30 magic systems on Roshar, since as far as we know, Odium doesn't bring his magic to the planets he visits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeshdan he/him Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Do we know for certain that Odium is a Shard? Maybe he's what caused Adonalsium to shatter in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFinisher4Ever he/him Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Yes, Odium is a shard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahak he/him Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Yes, Odium is a shard. Do we have any reason to believe any of the shards is native to Roshar? Ati and Leras didn't seem to be native to Scadrial, what with having created that worlds humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiken Frost he/him Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Do we have any reason to believe any of the shards is native to Roshar? Ati and Leras didn't seem to be native to Scadrial, what with having created that worlds humanity. By that logic, no shard is native to any world we have seem yet. By "native", I believe people are talking that they are shards who helped or was present in that planet when humanity was created there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelek he/him Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 The biggest question marks are here: 1) Is Odium currently on Roshar when we refer to the three shards. We know he travels, so it is possible that he has not yet visited Roshar, only sent his minions - the voidbringers, causing the Desolations. A point against this, though, is that Odium killed Honor, correct? 2) If he has been on Roshar, he could be the one responsible for the increasingly severe highstorms. The blades were corrupted by humanity using them on each other instead of holding them honorably against the forces of the Desolation. This is not an effect from Odium, just a dishonorable affect from murder. Just my opinion. 3) If Odium is not the shard referenced as the third, then who/what is? This is possibly the Nightwatcher. Could the Nightwatcher be a shard named Balance? Think of the blessing/curse system from visiting te Nightwatcher, the even number of magic systems and orders, and also the blade and plate. Everything on the planet has a balance or symmetry. This is possibly not from Honor. Here is another crazy and half-baseless theory from Kelek. Bash away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeshdan he/him Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 By that logic, no shard is native to any world we have seem yet. By "native", I believe people are talking that they are shards who helped or was present in that planet when humanity was created there. I agree, but is that the way Brandon is using it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiveAM he/him Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 The biggest question marks are here: 1) Is Odium currently on Roshar when we refer to the three shards. We know he travels, so it is possible that he has not yet visited Roshar, only sent his minions - the voidbringers, causing the Desolations. A point against this, though, is that Odium killed Honor, correct? 2) If he has been on Roshar, he could be the one responsible for the increasingly severe highstorms. The blades were corrupted by humanity using them on each other instead of holding them honorably against the forces of the Desolation. This is not an effect from Odium, just a dishonorable affect from murder. Just my opinion. 3) If Odium is not the shard referenced as the third, then who/what is? This is possibly the Nightwatcher. Could the Nightwatcher be a shard named Balance? Think of the blessing/curse system from visiting te Nightwatcher, the even number of magic systems and orders, and also the blade and plate. Everything on the planet has a balance or symmetry. This is possibly not from Honor. Here is another crazy and half-baseless theory from Kelek. Bash away. I think that Odium is not the third Shard mentioned. As you've said, a recurring theme in Roshar is symmetry, but i don't think the third Shard would be Balance, though you do make a really good point with the Nightwatcher. If it is originally 3 Shard on Roshar, then the 3 Shards as a whole should be creating the symmetry. Sort of like how Preservation AND Ruin created "Harmony". Also, the theme seems to be on symmetry more than balance (though more evidence may point to balance), considering how when asked about Shards' Intents (like Aona and Skai's of Sel) Brandon would check his notes or not commit to a specific word as of yet, the word itself is of significance. It would be really interesting if the Blades really ARE from Odium, but Odium is not on Honor's side. What if the Blades (and plate?) were part of the Oath Pact and when the Heralds abandoned them, the Blades (and Plates) began to become corrupted which therefor lead to the Recreance? Whoa, I totally just blew my own mind... Which makes me suspicious that this idea stinks. >.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiken Frost he/him Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 I agree, but is that the way Brandon is using it? What definition of "native" that can be applied to a Shard you believe in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortaan he/him Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 My question about Odium: Why does appointing a champion make him vulnerable? And if it does, is the same true of other Shards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelek he/him Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 The champion is human. Even with the magic being powered by the shard, there are still vulnerabilities. See Misborn trilogy since I dont feel like dealing with spoiler tags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiveAM he/him Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 I think it's just that Odium has rules he has to follow. Like the Oathpact and all, even though the Heralds failed, that might not dissolve the agreement completely. Might be part of it that a new Champion can be chosen, or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahak he/him Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 By that logic, no shard is native to any world we have seem yet. Other than Harmony being native to Scadrial because that's where Sazed comes from and where he became Harmony. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiken Frost he/him Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Other than Harmony being native to Scadrial because that's where Sazed comes from and where he became Harmony. Very good point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odium's_Shard Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 By 'native' Shards allow us to assume that we mean the original Shardholders. So, in your example, Ati and Leras aren't native to Scadrial (I believe it is to the place where Adonalsium was) however, three Slivers (Kelsier, Vin and Sazed) are. Though you raise a good question: Is Sazed's Shard still able to be differentiate as Ruin and Preservation or just Harmony? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiveAM he/him Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 By 'native' Shards allow us to assume that we mean the original Shardholders. So, in your example, Ati and Leras aren't native to Scadrial (I believe it is to the place where Adonalsium was) however, three Slivers (Kelsier, Vin and Sazed) are. Though you raise a good question: Is Sazed's Shard still able to be differentiate as Ruin and Preservation or just Harmony? Didn't Brandon say that Harmony is NOT a new melded Shard but just a name used to refer to Sazed? I believe he also said that the separate Intents of Ruin and Preservation still exist. Sorry I can't give you a quote, but I'm pretty sure it has been mentioned. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarepath he/him Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Didn't Brandon say that Harmony is NOT a new melded Shard but just a name used to refer to Sazed? I believe he also said that the separate Intents of Ruin and Preservation still exist. Sorry I can't give you a quote, but I'm pretty sure it has been mentioned. Yeah, Sazed didn't make up a new shard, he just handles multiple shards at once like a boss. No other shardholder's got anything on the Hero of Ages, what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odium's_Shard Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 That is good. Meaning that if Sazed were to, well, stop existing. These Shard's fit back into the puzzle of Adonalsium. Maybe that is what they are trying to stop? For Adonalsium to be fixed, all Shardholders will have to die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wisdom he/him Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Thats the problem with reuniting all the Shards, Sazed was lucky in that two Shards became available at the same time that were exact opposites and therefore cancelled each others effect on his mind. He is still a free agent. If he added another Shard somehow it would upset the balance, I think it might require all Shards to be available at the same time for anyone to reunite them. On another note, I wonder if Sazed could take on Odium? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanist Lupus he/him Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Didn't Brandon say that Harmony is NOT a new melded Shard but just a name used to refer to Sazed? I believe he also said that the separate Intents of Ruin and Preservation still exist. Sorry I can't give you a quote, but I'm pretty sure it has been mentioned. I'm pretty sure that he's said that Harmony is more than just a name, though. I still hold to the molecule theory, that Harmony is a "molecule" composed of the "atoms" of Preservation and Ruin. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odium's_Shard Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 A neutral molecule. So no plus or negative charge to twist him to either Shard's Intent and make himself incapable of certain things, like destruction. I like that theory. It just.. explains it well. I am going to go by this 'molecule' theory from now on. Thanks! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiken Frost he/him Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 I'm pretty sure that he's said that Harmony is more than just a name, though. I still hold to the molecule theory, that Harmony is a "molecule" composed of the "atoms" of Preservation and Ruin. A neutral molecule. So no plus or negative charge to twist him to either Shard's Intent and make himself incapable of certain things, like destruction. I like that theory. It just.. explains it well. I am going to go by this 'molecule' theory from now on. Thanks! +50 points to Gryffindor! That theory is the perfect way to explain it, in my opinion, and it is what I believe as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiveAM he/him Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 That is good. Meaning that if Sazed were to, well, stop existing. These Shard's fit back into the puzzle of Adonalsium. Maybe that is what they are trying to stop? For Adonalsium to be fixed, all Shardholders will have to die? Do they have to die? Are Shard bound to the Holder when they take it? Or maybe its simply that if one holds onto the Shard long enough to be changed by the Intent of the Shard that they won't do it, simply because the Intent has too much of an influence on their minds and prevents them from doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odium's_Shard Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) I can't really see someone separating from the awesome power that is a Shard without a fight. Unless they were stupid/too kind to be Holding a Shard. We also haven't any mention of a Shard being released without either being killed (and only then by another Shard, see Ati and Vin) and then Shattered (see Aona and Skai) or the Holder's energy reserves being completely emptied (see Leras). EDIT: Eliminated confusion about Shattering. Edited January 7, 2012 by Odium's_Shard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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