Underwater_Worldhopper he/him Posted August 6, 2023 Posted August 6, 2023 1 minute ago, PinkPlasma said: healing around the aluminum is a little different than unhealable. the hole might be able to partaily close up in front of the bullet if it went deep enough in, or if it went clean through it wouldn't have trouble healing at all. however the idea of aluminum bullets that shatter once inside could be super deadly as well Bullets do often fragment inside, and Aluminum projects enough of a "No magic here" zone to fully protect someone's head from EA from all angles from just a band in their hat. Also wanted to mention, brain damage is usually enough to kill a regular Bloodmaker, Miles survived because of his Savantism (most likely, unless he had a Bavadinium spike the entire time). The rumors about the LR were purposefully exaggerated to help his reputation as unkillable and god-like early in his reign.
PinkPlasma she/her Posted August 6, 2023 Author Posted August 6, 2023 3 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said: Bullets do often fragment inside, and Aluminum projects enough of a "No magic here" zone to fully protect someone's head from EA from all angles from just a band in their hat. Also wanted to mention, brain damage is usually enough to kill a regular Bloodmaker, Miles survived because of his Savantism (most likely, unless he had a Bavadinium spike the entire time). The rumors about the LR were purposefully exaggerated to help his reputation as unkillable and god-like early in his reign. i do want to point out that the strength of the investiture probably matters, and while i don't have any confirmation of it, i'm gonna assume EA has less strength than compounded healing or stormlight
therunner he/him Posted August 6, 2023 Posted August 6, 2023 3 minutes ago, PinkPlasma said: i do want to point out that the strength of the investiture probably matters, and while i don't have any confirmation of it, i'm gonna assume EA has less strength than compounded healing or stormlight Investiture strength does not matter, not when it comes to Aluminum. As far as we know even Shards could not do anything to Aluminum (directly at least). It is inviolable even to Nightblood (its sheet is aluminum). Compounders nor Radiants are not even within the same neighborhood of power, so they won't affect it.
Underwater_Worldhopper he/him Posted August 6, 2023 Posted August 6, 2023 Just now, PinkPlasma said: i do want to point out that the strength of the investiture probably matters, and while i don't have any confirmation of it, i'm gonna assume EA has less strength than compounded healing or stormlight True, but the amount of extra Investiture needed to push through most effects of Aluminum is so large that the comparatively small difference between something like EA and Stormlight wouldn't be enough to make a difference. Also note that even if that is the case, even a bullet/bullet fragment-sized damage to the brain can be severely hindering depending on where it is, going from general mind fog to loss of motor function. Not to mention the panic factor of suddenly being shot in such a deadly place and being unable to heal from it, and the fact that with an auto-aiming gun, you could fire multiple times wherever you please.
Underwater_Worldhopper he/him Posted August 6, 2023 Posted August 6, 2023 2 minutes ago, therunner said: Investiture strength does not matter, not when it comes to Aluminum. As far as we know even Shards could not do anything to Aluminum (directly at least). It is inviolable even to Nightblood (its sheet is aluminum). Compounders nor Radiants are not even within the same neighborhood of power, so they won't affect it. Well, it's not that hard of a rule. You could Soulcast Aluminum if you really wanted to, provided six Shards of Adonalsium are backing the transformation up with their full power. Beyond that, Nightblood can, just a little, bypass Aluminum. Wounds made with his sheath still on leave blackened tissue.
PinkPlasma she/her Posted August 6, 2023 Author Posted August 6, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, therunner said: Investiture strength does not matter, not when it comes to Aluminum. As far as we know even Shards could not do anything to Aluminum (directly at least). It is inviolable even to Nightblood (its sheet is aluminum). Compounders nor Radiants are not even within the same neighborhood of power, so they won't affect it. i think its like the brightness of a light bulb right? if you completely cover the lightbulb, no light comes out. so no matter how strong the light is, none escapes. nightblood is like a floodlight, but its still completely covered. however when its even slightly uncovered, its light shines pretty damn bright. when even slightly unsheathed, nightblood can make almost anyone go on a murderous rampage if they get hold of him. but thats because the "Light bulb" is really really bright. other things with less allomancy, might be more properly covered by less aluminum though, without even having to cover the direct source. so while yea, nightblood is completely capured while completely coated in aluminum, i don't think a tiny peice of aluminum will completely keep a pretty large and important body part from healing at all when discussing something as invested as a bag of sphere's worth of stormlight, or compounded gold. it'll stop it a little sure, but i doubt it will stop completely. with that logic, if i wear an aluminum headband Nightblood will turn into a normal steel sword if it gets too close to my head. Edited August 6, 2023 by PinkPlasma typos
PinkPlasma she/her Posted August 6, 2023 Author Posted August 6, 2023 5 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said: Well, it's not that hard of a rule. You could Soulcast Aluminum if you really wanted to, provided six Shards of Adonalsium are backing the transformation up with their full power. Beyond that, Nightblood can, just a little, bypass Aluminum. Wounds made with his sheath still on leave blackened tissue. to top this off, he can still telepathically comunicate even when completely sheathed.
PinkPlasma she/her Posted August 6, 2023 Author Posted August 6, 2023 11 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said: True, but the amount of extra Investiture needed to push through most effects of Aluminum is so large that the comparatively small difference between something like EA and Stormlight wouldn't be enough to make a difference. Also note that even if that is the case, even a bullet/bullet fragment-sized damage to the brain can be severely hindering depending on where it is, going from general mind fog to loss of motor function. Not to mention the panic factor of suddenly being shot in such a deadly place and being unable to heal from it, and the fact that with an auto-aiming gun, you could fire multiple times wherever you please. i will concede that even if they fully healed over, having chunks of metal in your brain will still probably kill you. my best guess is the investiture would keep you going for a while depending where in your brain the metal is, but once it runs out you'd be done
therunner he/him Posted August 6, 2023 Posted August 6, 2023 8 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said: Well, it's not that hard of a rule. You could Soulcast Aluminum if you really wanted to, provided six Shards of Adonalsium are backing the transformation up with their full power. That was a bit of a tongue in cheek answer from Brandon. Not to mention he says maybe six Shards could do it, not that they actually could. But point taken. 9 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said: Beyond that, Nightblood can, just a little, bypass Aluminum. Wounds made with his sheath still on leave blackened tissue. 6 minutes ago, PinkPlasma said: i think its like the brightness of a light bulb right? if you completely cover the lightbulb, no light comes out. so no matter how stromg the light is, none escapes. nightblood is like a floodlight, but its still completely covered. however when its even slightly uncovered, its light shines pretty damn bright. when even slightly unsheathed, nightblood can make almost anyone go on a murderous rampage if they get hold of him. but thats because the "Light bulb" is really really bright. other things with less allomancy, might be more properly covered by less aluminum though, without even having to cover the direct source. so while yea, nightblood is completely capured while completely coated in aluminum, i don't think a tiny peice of aluminum will completely keep a pretty large and important body part from healing at all when discussing something as invested as a bag of sphere's worth of stormlight, or compounded gold. it'll stop it a little sure, but i doubt it will stop completely. with that logic, if i wear an aluminum headband Nightblood will turn into a normal steel sword if it gets too close to my head. 3 minutes ago, PinkPlasma said: to top this off, he can still telepathically comunicate even when completely sheathed. On the Nightblood, I would point out that the entire sword is awakened, not just the blade. And since even when fully sheathed the handle is not covered by Aluminum, it is not surprising that certain measure of power gets out. Quote , i don't think a tiny peice of aluminum will completely keep a pretty large and important body part from healing at all when discussing something as invested as a bag of sphere's worth of stormlight, or compounded gold. I think it will heal everything except near vicinity of the aluminum, since it won't be able to move or affect aluminum in any way. So shoot Gold compounder or Radiant in the brain stem with Aluminum bullet and they will simply die, because the power won't be able to heal the damage.
PinkPlasma she/her Posted August 6, 2023 Author Posted August 6, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, therunner said: I think it will heal everything except near vicinity of the aluminum, since it won't be able to move or affect aluminum in any way. So shoot Gold compounder or Radiant in the brain stem with Aluminum bullet and they will simply die, because the power won't be able to heal the damage. fair enough, I can't really argue with that, considering aluminum con stop ridculous amount of investure on contact. Edited August 6, 2023 by PinkPlasma forgot to mention something
Underwater_Worldhopper he/him Posted August 6, 2023 Posted August 6, 2023 15 minutes ago, PinkPlasma said: i think its like the brightness of a light bulb right? if you completely cover the lightbulb, no light comes out. so no matter how stromg the light is, none escapes. nightblood is like a floodlight, but its still completely covered. however when its even slightly uncovered, its light shines pretty damn bright. when even slightly unsheathed, nightblood can make almost anyone go on a murderous rampage if they get hold of him. but thats because the "Light bulb" is really really bright. other things with less allomancy, might be more properly covered by less aluminum though, without even having to cover the direct source. so while yea, nightblood is completely capured while completely coated in aluminum, i don't think a tiny peice of aluminum will completely keep a pretty large and important body part from healing at all when discussing something as invested as a bag of sphere's worth of stormlight, or compounded gold. it'll stop it a little sure, but i doubt it will stop completely. with that logic, if i wear an aluminum headband Nightblood will turn into a normal steel sword if it gets too close to my head. Some things just don't interact with Aluminum's field. Not because they're too strong, but because they just don't. It's pedantic to say Nightblood would become a steel sword when in the presence of Aluminum, but Forgery, while it cannot affect Aluminum, has no problem Forging things within it's field, and Forgery is a low-Investiture Art. Even still, when Nightblood is wielded against its Aluminum sheath, it stops just like a regular steel sword, just the same as an ordinary Shardblade would have. Nightblood's telepathic communication, though, could be stopped by an Aluminum band around the head, as well as his 'test', which are both likened to EA. 16 minutes ago, PinkPlasma said: to top this off, he can still telepathically comunicate even when completely sheathed. Like Therunner said, he isn't completely covered. 15 minutes ago, PinkPlasma said: i will concede that even if they fully healed over, having chunks of metal in your brain will still probably kill you. my best guess is the investiture would keep you going for a while depending where in your brain the metal is, but once it runs out you'd be done The Investiture couldn't keep you going. It will heal your body as best it can, but if the unhealed damage done would stop you if you weren't Invested, you'd drop even if you were. Investiture can't keep you going supernaturally like that. 10 minutes ago, PinkPlasma said: fair enough, I can't really argue with that, considering aluminum con stop ridculous amount of investure on contact. Investiture healing is again not nearly powerful enough to overpower the field effect of Aluminum, which we see does effect Invested healing. So it wouldn't be just the Aluminum itself, but an area around it too. Where the brain is concerned, that little extra area makes it so much more likely to be lethal.
PinkPlasma she/her Posted August 11, 2023 Author Posted August 11, 2023 On 8/6/2023 at 4:42 PM, Underwater_Worldhopper said: Some things just don't interact with Aluminum's field. Not because they're too strong, but because they just don't. It's pedantic to say Nightblood would become a steel sword when in the presence of Aluminum, but Forgery, while it cannot affect Aluminum, has no problem Forging things within it's field, and Forgery is a low-Investiture Art. Even still, when Nightblood is wielded against its Aluminum sheath, it stops just like a regular steel sword, just the same as an ordinary Shardblade would have. Nightblood's telepathic communication, though, could be stopped by an Aluminum band around the head, as well as his 'test', which are both likened to EA. i agree with most of the things you've said, ya'll have for the most part convinced me that aluminum would stop invested healing. but i don't think the examples you gave here really prove the light theory wrong. the first example, was kind of my point. there is no way that nightblood would ever do this, so it at least proves aluminum isn't all powerfull and investiture nullifying. with forgery vs EA, i think target of the "light" (investiture) is important here. say two people have a flashlight, trying to light up something they can't see. both of them are in a room, with a window with a curtian drawn over it. one of them is trying to light up a tree outside (EA on a person) but the curtain stops them (aluminum in the way). the other person is in the same room, trying to light up their book (forgery on an object nearby aluminum). the curtian didn't stop the second person because it wasn't in the way. they were both around the same level of flashlights (around same investiture level) but the curtain (aluminum) didn't stop the second person because it wasn't blocking their target, even though it was nearby. I think the issue here is that you all assume that alluminum projects some sort of dynamic investure stopping feild that stops some things but not others and does this sometimes. ima be frank, sometimes the simpler awnser is just the right one, and i think thats how it is here.
Underwater_Worldhopper he/him Posted August 11, 2023 Posted August 11, 2023 45 minutes ago, PinkPlasma said: i agree with most of the things you've said, ya'll have for the most part convinced me that aluminum would stop invested healing. but i don't think the examples you gave here really prove the light theory wrong. the first example, was kind of my point. there is no way that nightblood would ever do this, so it at least proves aluminum isn't all powerfull and investiture nullifying. But it is. Nightblood acts like a regular steel sword if you try to use it against Aluminum. Just because he doesn't interact with the Aluminum field doesn't means there's no field there at all. Aluminum is all-powerful and nullifying, but not in exactly the same ways for every single Invested Art. 45 minutes ago, PinkPlasma said: with forgery vs EA, i think target of the "light" (investiture) is important here. say two people have a flashlight, trying to light up something they can't see. both of them are in a room, with a window with a curtian drawn over it. one of them is trying to light up a tree outside (EA on a person) but the curtain stops them (aluminum in the way). the other person is in the same room, trying to light up their book (forgery on an object nearby aluminum). the curtian didn't stop the second person because it wasn't in the way. they were both around the same level of flashlights (around same investiture level) but the curtain (aluminum) didn't stop the second person because it wasn't blocking their target, even though it was nearby. I think the issue here is that you all assume that alluminum projects some sort of dynamic investure stopping feild that stops some things but not others and does this sometimes. ima be frank, sometimes the simpler awnser is just the right one, and i think thats how it is here. It's a false dichotomy, the analogy is inherently flawed. We know that Aluminum does have a field, and it affects EA. To use your analogy, instead of a curtain blocking the light, it's a rod that emanates a field through which light from the EA flashlight cant pass. But in that same field, the Forgery flashlight does work, unless you try it directly on the rod. It's the same with Nightblood, if you shine his flashlight in the field it works, but not on the rod directly. In contrast, the Invested Healing flashlight doesn't work in the field at all, like the EA Flashlight. Invested Arts interact differently with Aluminum, so that's why there's diversity in the end result. Quote Questioner Is aluminum shielding from emotional Allomancy strictly line of sight? So, can someone in the basement bypass somebody’s aluminum hat on the first floor Brandon Sanderson No, they could not. You just put enough aluminum there and it disrupts. Questioner So it disrupts like a field. Brandon Sanderson Yep. Shadows of Self San Francisco signing (Oct. 9, 2015)
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