Underwater_Worldhopper he/him Posted June 26, 2023 Posted June 26, 2023 Something I thought of recently. If I use a Shardblade and Spiritually kill someone's arm with it, could I Awaken the arm as a Lifeless that works as a separate entity from the person it's attached to? It seems implausible at first glance, but bear with me. The portion of your soul that correlates to your arm get excised, so your arm would not be soulless, disconnected from your mind, and you cannot use it. It is unInvested now, so you should be able to Awaken it. Being soulless is not the same as actually dying, so no necrosis or anything is happening to the arm. It's still getting blood flow and through that, an oxygen supply, and it has all the genetic data it needs to continue to sustain itself, so no maintenance or ichor-alcohol will be needed since the subject never died. So could you do it? If you used a Shardblade to kill all four limbs and Awakened them all, could you essentially control a person that way by coding their limbs to work together (I assume they'll count as individual Lifeless) in accordance with what you order them to?
Treamayne Posted June 26, 2023 Posted June 26, 2023 (edited) BLUF: I think it is far more likely to heal the blade-deadened limb than to "awaken" it. 28 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said: Something I thought of recently. If I use a Shardblade and Spiritually kill someone's arm with it, could I Awaken the arm as a Lifeless that works as a separate entity from the person it's attached to? Discussion on this and related topics: Awakening Blade-Dead Limbs Non-Blade weapons Can Breaths Heal Shardwounds Awakened object Heightenings I'll just quote what I posted before: On 4/8/2022 at 6:15 PM, Treamayne said: If severing the limb with the shard blade is actually severing the spiritual connection of the limb to the individual, then Breath might restore that connection. In Warbreaker, we see indications that Breath creates a connection between the awakener and the awakened <object>.: Spoiler Warbreaker Ch. 35: That wasn’t the way her newfound senses worked. They were part of her. So, instead of concentrating, she relaxed, letting her unconscious mind do the work. A little like she did when she changed the color of her hair. “Untie,” she Commanded. The Breath flowed from her. It was like blowing bubbles beneath the water, exhaling a piece of herself but feeling it flow into something else. That something else became part of her—a limb she could only slightly control. It was more of a sense of the rope than an ability to move it. So, if the breath creates a connection to the severed limb, then I would guess that the correct intent and command might be able to just restore the limb entirely (since we already see some investiture "heal" the severed limbs). PS: For those that don't know - BLUF is "Bottom Line Up Front" - it's like a TLDR that comes at the start of a post so people can skip it if they don't want more detail. Edited June 26, 2023 by Treamayne SPAG 1
Underwater_Worldhopper he/him Posted June 27, 2023 Author Posted June 27, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Treamayne said: BLUF: I think it is far more likely to heal the blade-deadened limb than to "awaken" it. I don't think it would heal it. Lifeless take a single Breath to create; that's not a lot of Investiture, especially for Soul-Healing purposes. I doubt it would heal the limb the traditional way. I see what you mean about the Connection that it forms, but that's too slight for "healing" the limb in this roundabout way too. I could see it maybe happening over time if you use a very complex and specific Command alongside a mind-bogglingly complex visualization, where it allows you to use the limb in some capacity and the Breath slowly grafts onto your Spiritweb, allowing for more direct control. But that's only if you yourself Awaken the limb, and there's evidence that that may not be possible. My question was posed more as to whether or not it would be possible to create a living Lifeless servant this way by Shard-killing and Awakening their limbs, healing the limb in any way had not been what I had in mind, though I could see it being possible if certain conditions are met. Quote Discussion on this and related topics: Awakening Blade-Dead Limbs Non-Blade weapons Can Breaths Heal Shardwounds Awakened object Heightenings I didn't realise this was such a popular topic Edited June 27, 2023 by Underwater_Worldhopper
Treamayne Posted June 27, 2023 Posted June 27, 2023 (edited) Quote But that's only if you yourself Awaken the limb, and there's evidence that that may not be possible. No, you cannot self-heal with Awakening. I did not mean to impy that you would. 3 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said: My question was posed more as to whether or not it would be possible to create a living Lifeless servant this way by Shard-killing and Awakening their limbs, healing the limb in any way had not been what I had in mind, though I could see it being possible if certain conditions are met. I understood your question - I just don't think you can use a lifeless command this way. The Command "Live at my Command" (Warbreak Ch 21) would cause it to heal the damaged connection. I agree that one breath would probably not be enough - so it sould be like Hobber in OB ch 37 - barely a tingle with not enough breath - but I also think if you have more breath, it would use however many it needed (not just one - as shown with Vivenna's failed awakening of Tonks' cloak) and if you didn't have enough to complete the healing, it would use them all. Remember, one key aspect of Lifeless is that they Awaken permamently, and therefore use thier own color (annotation to Ch 21) - but a Blade-Dead limb is already "Gray" (though no WoBs yet comfirming that it is the "same" gray - it seems likely) and has no color to fuel an Awakening. That doesn't preclude the the development of a different Command to do what you want (maybe the non-one-breath lifeless Command didn't use "Live" as part of its structure). . Spoiler OB Ch 37 Quote That sign of redemption. The light in Hobber’s fist went out. “Ha!” Lunamor shouted. “HA!” Hobber jumped in surprise. His jaw dropped and he stared at the now-dun gemstone. Then he held up his hand, gawking at the luminescent smoke that rose from it. “Guys?” he called. “Guys, guys!” Lunamor stepped back as the bridgemen left their stations and came rushing over. “Give him your gemstones!” Kaladin called. “He’s going to need a lot! Pile them up!” Bridgemen scrambled to give Hobber their emeralds, and he drew in more and more Stormlight. Then the light suddenly dampened. “I can feel them again!” Hobber cried. “I can feel my toes!” WB Ch 21: Quote Vasher knelt, putting a hand on the creature. “Awaken to my Breath,” he Commanded, “serve my needs, live at my Command and my word. Fallen Rope.” Those last words, “fallen rope,” formed the security phrase. Vasher could have chosen anything, but he picked the first thing that came to mind. Annotation to Ch 21: I wanted to show the creation of a Lifeless somewhere in this book, as I think the process is interesting. The drain of color happens in a slightly different way than in regular Awakening, though it’s similar. In this case, the creature draws color from its own body in order to come to life. The better your imagining of the Command when you make it (not the orders you give it, but the one when you give it the Breath), the more intelligent and capable of following orders the Lifeless is. Later in the book, for instance, people are surprised at how good this little squirrel is at doing what it is told. Quote I didn't realise this was such a popular topic I doubt those are all of the threads - those are just the ones I could find quickly because I knew I had replied to them (advanced Search > my posts filter > "limb") Edited June 27, 2023 by Treamayne SPAG
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