How does sign language work with awakening?

[Argenti he/him]

So the God kings had their tongues chopped off, and since they never learned to speak a language, if they learned a sign language (perhaps one corresponding to Hallandren?), it would count as their first language. Would this mean that they could do commands this way? 

[External Gills he/him]

Yup, looks like it:

Spoiler

Jack Milson

How many Awakening Commands are there? Is there a finite number, a finite but large number or infinite? Can you Awaken with sign language?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, you can Awaken with sign language. I would say that there are an infinite number, would be my guess. It's either finite but very, very large or infinite. But they're gonna fall into groups as things tend to do in the Cosmere, I would say.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 (June 3, 2021)

 

[Argenti he/him]

Huh, neat. 

[Treamayne]

9 hours ago, Argenti said:

So the God kings had their tongues chopped off, and since they never learned to speak a language, if they learned a sign language (perhaps one corresponding to Hallandren?), it would count as their first language. Would this mean that they could do commands this way? 

9 hours ago, External Gills said:

Yup, looks like it:

  Hide contents

Jack Milson

How many Awakening Commands are there? Is there a finite number, a finite but large number or infinite? Can you Awaken with sign language?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, you can Awaken with sign language. I would say that there are an infinite number, would be my guess. It's either finite but very, very large or infinite. But they're gonna fall into groups as things tend to do in the Cosmere, I would say.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 (June 3, 2021)

 

Keep in mind that the WoB may be referring to a legitimate sign language (ASL, VLSF, KSL, JSL, etc. that has a developed vocabulary of signs) which is not necessarily what is used by the Hallandren God Kings (which is described as a pidgin sign language using mostly pointing). Also he was taught Hallandren, he simply cannot speak or read it using the normal script - but can read the Artisan's Script (Warbreaker Ch 29) so I don't think sign language would count as their "Native Language."

 

[Argenti he/him]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

Keep in mind that the WoB may be referring to a legitimate sign language (ASL, VLSF, KSL, JSL, etc. that has a developed vocabulary of signs) which is not necessarily what is used by the Hallandren God Kings (which is described as a pidgin sign language using mostly pointing). Also he was taught Hallandren, he simply cannot speak or read it using the normal script - but can read the Artisan's Script (Warbreaker Ch 29) so I don't think sign language would count as their "Native Language."

 

It's just a random scenario to add context to my question, imagine they had an actual sign language (HSL?) I've had question before where I needed to explain 2-3 times before someone answered my question *Cough* Nightblood's Cognitive aspect *Cough*

[Treamayne]

25 minutes ago, Argenti said:

It's just a random scenario to add context to my question, imagine they had an actual sign language (HSL?) I've had question before where I needed to explain 2-3 times before someone answered my question *Cough* Nightblood's Cognitive aspect *Cough*

Right, but your specific question:

11 hours ago, Argenti said:

So the God kings had their tongues chopped off, and since they never learned to speak a language, if they learned a sign language (perhaps one corresponding to Hallandren?), it would count as their first language. Would this mean that they could do commands this way? 

I was mearly answering that it would not count as their first language - they did learn Hallandren, it was just the Artisan's script (which can only be used by those of the Third Heightening and above). Also note: (Warbreaker Ch 58)

Spoiler

Vasher shrugged. “The Tenth Heightening allows a man to Command mentally, without speaking, but it can take months of training to learn how to do that—even if you have someone to teach you. I think his priests must know how, so they can transfer that wealth of Breath from one king to another, but I doubt they’ve trained him yet. One of their duties is to keep him from using his Breaths in the first place.”

Now, if what you really wanted to know was if a normal person could use a defined sign language to Command an Awakening - that was answered in the WoB.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Argenti he/him]

Just now, Treamayne said:

Now, if what you really wanted to know was if a normal person could use a defined sign language to COmmand an Awakening - that was answered in the WoB.

yup

[Duxredux he/him]

It may depend on what the person considers their native tongue, or may even be related to how they think. Susebron certainly couldn't speak, but he could understand the spoken word and may think in spoken Hallendren. There's been studies on the modality of thought based on whether a deaf person thinks in words or visualizes signs. A child born hearing and then becomes deaf may still think in the spoken language whereas a child born deaf may think in terms of signs or lip reading. It varies.

So for the Godkings who are mute but not deaf, it may be more complicated than what their first outward communications is. It may be related to how they think or comprehend the world, and they may not be able to sign to Awaken because they think in spoken Hallendren. Since Returned are transformed to a perfected state with no memories it's a pretty solid system if most would consider the spoken word their native language.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Duxredux
changed phrasing based on distinctions between deaf and mute.