Hare_Mettle Posted June 11, 2023 Report Share Posted June 11, 2023 My Shallan Theory Timeline with Explanations: (Real Shallan – as yet unseen but mentoned) Formless = chronologically first Shallan with no Spren - No Spren chose her - Her parents loved her Someone or some force convinced Shallan she needed a Spren - Mystery so far that we will find out from Formless - Maybe connection to Nale and the Skybreakers? She creates Forgotten Shallan (Think how we don’t know much about Shallan before she kills her mom – and then how different her family thinks she acts afterwards) Forgotten Shallan can now make bonds because of her new identity. Forgotten Shallan says 1st Ideal off Page = Bonds Testament Forgotten Shallan says Second Ideal (1st Truth) off page = Sword for Lightweavers and limited abilities in Soulcasting and Lightweaving Forgotten Shallan breaks the oath with Testament the night she kills her mom. Now Book Shallan is created and has memory problems. Book Shallan can now make bonds again because of her new identity. Because Book Shallan can’t recall Testament or her past oaths, she bonds Pattern by saying the 1st Ideal off page. Book Shallan: “I’m Terrified” - Second Ideal (1st Truth) to Pattern, giving her Blade and limited Soulcasting and Lightweaving abilities. Book Shallan breaks her oaths to Pattern not by just lying to Jasnah, but also by then coming completely clean to her afterwards and showing remorse for an honorable lie? Book Shallan now becomes the version of herself that will invent and develop Veil. This new personality says the First Ideal again off page, fixing the oaths with Testament who pretends to be Pattern (good lies!) and Shallan accepts it because of her denial and mental condition. Veil Shallan can pretend she is new and rebond Testament. Veil Shallan says: “I killed my father” the first Truth which brings Testament back through her 2nd Ideal and gives her Blade again which she uses to open the Gates and kill Tyn and use in the Chasms. Veil Shallan says second Truth: “I killed my mother” to rebonded Testament to reach her 3rd Ideal at the end of Words of Radiance. Veil Shallan does something that breaks her bond to Testament in the time between the end of WoR and the creation of Radiant. (Coming clean to Adolin?) Once Oathbringer begins, Radiant Shallan has said her 1st, 2nd and 3rd Ideals off page, allowing her the abilites with Blade and Surgebindng that she gets from rebonding Pattern again. This also accounts for her having Shardplate people think she has at the end of Oathbringer in the battle. With no new personalities and no new oath breaking, Shallan, Veil and Radiant, now all somewhat content with life and abilities…begin to remember Formless because they fear losing everything. So chronologically, Radiant Shallan was the last new personality and Testament was the last of her two Cryptics to ‘take the bullet’ for her so to speak. This means that Testament would be a deadeye in Shadesmar when they see it. And then when Radiant Shallan with Pattern says the last line: “ "I killed her," Shallan whispered. "I killed my spren. My wonderful, beautiful, kindly spren. I broke my oaths, and I killed her." She is really saying TWO Truths which puts her Rebond with Pattern up to the 5th Ideal by the end of WoR…one ahead of Kaladin. - Two Truths? Maybe…but which ones? - “I killed my Spren” if you can consider a deadeye a Spren. - “I killed her” could be someone we don’t know about yet - “I broke my oaths” seems like it could be its own, shameful Truth. NOTE: To really buy into this theory, you need to accept that BS is going to do something narratively funky with Shallan because of her conditions. This means a lot of things are happening off page…something he started to foreshadow in WoR with the locked box and all that. Let me know what you think. There might be a Veil/Radiant/Book Shallan typo here or there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted June 11, 2023 Report Share Posted June 11, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hare_Mettle said: (Real Shallan – as yet unseen but mentoned) Formless = chronologically first Shallan with no Spren - No Spren chose her - Her parents loved her Someone or some force convinced Shallan she needed a Spren - Mystery so far that we will find out from Formless - Maybe connection to Nale and the Skybreakers? There are troubles with this. Shallan is still an unreliable narrator, but I think Veil's memories about the Testament can be trusted. There Shallan said: Quote Memories flooded her. Playing in the gardens as a child, meeting a Cryptic. A beautiful, spiraling spren that dimpled the stone. Wonderful times, spent hidden among the foliage in their special place. The Cryptic encouraged her to become strong enough to help her family, to stand against the terrible darkness spreading through it. Such a blessed time, full of hope, and joy, and truths spoken easily with the solemnity and wonder of a child. That companion had been a true friend to an isolated child, a girl who suffered parents who constantly fought over her future. From this we know something was happening in the house Davar, some darkness was spreading there (likely Unmade), this attracted Cryptics who were determined to bond with Sallan no matter how many of them will die (that's what Pattern said to her). This bond was meant to encourage Shallan to help her family and fight against Unmade. So the bond wasn't because of what Shallan was hiding, but what was happening with her family. If theory about Shallan's mother being Herald Chana is true, which all points towards this, this is what attracted Unmade to Davars, and what attracted Cryptics even more to Shallan. Because why would they keep insisting to bond her if she were to kill each of them? Moreover we know you don't have to have big secrets to attract Cryptics, Tien was like that. But in the case of Shallan it's because of Chana. Spoiler Questioner Was Shallan's family, during her childhood, being influenced by an Unmade? Brandon Sanderson Um, yes. Questioner Was it the corrupting-- Brandon Sanderson I'll RAFO that, but yes, there is some external influence there. JordanCon 2018 (April 22, 2018) Spoiler Questioner You've said before that Tien was on the track to becoming a Lightweaver, before he, you know. What lie was he telling that was attracting a Cryptic? Brandon Sanderson That's a very good question. Tien was hiding a lot of belief that he was not a good person. That people didn't want to be around him, and things like this. He was hiding a lot of that, and he knew that people saw him as a burst of sunshine, and he didn't ever want them to not see him that way. That was really hard on him, as it is on a lot of people who are like Tien. Questioner 2 But did he like rocks? Brandon Sanderson He really liked rocks. The fact that he never got to meet Rock is... and throw a bucket of water on him! Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021) 1 hour ago, Hare_Mettle said: She creates Forgotten Shallan (Think how we don’t know much about Shallan before she kills her mom – and then how different her family thinks she acts afterwards) I don't think young Shallan would create versions of herself - there was no trauma yet for her to deal with. There was no point for her to hide that. Radiant is her way of dealing with that past, her childhood, Radiant holds those memories, not "Forgotten" - this was admitted in RoW. This means Shallan knew her mother was a Herald, and killing her caused this Desolation (Taln didn't break confirmed by WoB - that's from This theory) 1 hour ago, Hare_Mettle said: Forgotten Shallan says Second Ideal (1st Truth) off page = Sword for Lightweavers and limited abilities in Soulcasting and Lightweaving That's likely not the case anymore. Analyzing WoR after Testament reveals, points strongly that all Shardblades Shallan summoned during RoW were Testament, and Lightweavers, like others, get their Shardblades at 3rd Ideal. It was disscused more here. 1 hour ago, Hare_Mettle said: Forgotten Shallan breaks the oath with Testament the night she kills her mom. Here's my theory, the words spoken by Shallan when breaking the bond with Testament are important. She would be on 4th Ideal with Testament by those words. 1 hour ago, Hare_Mettle said: Now Book Shallan is created and has memory problems. I think that's still not the case. The Shallan we know from WoK don't have holes in her memory, she is actively trying to fight against them, like pretending she needs 10 heartbeats, or that she didn't kill her mother, etc. She is in denial, but she didn't create any personality yet - she needs Lightweaving for this. 1 hour ago, Hare_Mettle said: Book Shallan can now make bonds again because of her new identity. Identity wasn't a problem. Nor her Identity as Cosmere property did change - but we know too little about Identity to know what it is. As Pattern said, Cryptics were willing to send as many spren to bond her as needed, even if she were to kill all of them. This means changing identity doesn't matter. She had something very special that made them do that (her mother). 1 hour ago, Hare_Mettle said: Book Shallan: “I’m Terrified” - Second Ideal (1st Truth) to Pattern, giving her Blade and limited Soulcasting and Lightweaving abilities. That can't be spoken to Pattern. Firstly we have WoB saying that if Shallan didn't start to summon her Shardblade (Testament) she wouldn't be able to soulcast. Secondly, the voice she heard was different from Pattern's voice - that was Testament's voice. Thirdly her 2nd Truth was spoken at the end of WoK "I killed my father". That was spoken to Pattern. Spoiler Havoc (paraphrased) In Way of Kings, Shallan is being chased by Cryptics. She begins to summon her Shardblade, stops and then Soulcasts for the first time. We know from Words of Radiance that it's her bond to Pattern, her Shardblade that allows her to Soulcast. So my question is, if Shallan had not begun to summon her Blade, would she have been able to Soulcast? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) She would not have been able to. Good question! Wow. No one has ever asked me that before. GollanczFest London (Oct. 17, 2015) "I'm terrified" was her first step in recreating her oaths with Testament, which can bring her back to life if all oaths were to be respoken. 1 hour ago, Hare_Mettle said: Book Shallan breaks her oaths to Pattern not by just lying to Jasnah, but also by then coming completely clean to her afterwards and showing remorse for an honorable lie? That makes no sense. Admitting to the lie is like the whole thing required by Cryptics and their bond. 1 hour ago, Hare_Mettle said: Book Shallan now becomes the version of herself that will invent and develop Veil. This new personality says the First Ideal again off page, fixing the oaths with Testament who pretends to be Pattern (good lies!) and Shallan accepts it because of her denial and mental condition. Veil Shallan can pretend she is new and rebond Testament. What? I didn't expect that at all. For Shallan to rebond Testament, she would need to respoke all her Oaths with her, and that's likely all 4 of them. There would be a lot of "off paging" involved if that was the case in WoR. And Testament wouldn’t pretend she is Pattern. And again, Lightweaving is needed for Veil to come to life. 1 hour ago, Hare_Mettle said: Veil Shallan does something that breaks her bond to Testament in the time between the end of WoR and the creation of Radiant. (Coming clean to Adolin?) Another off page? I don't think making that many off page events, which would be soooo important to Shallan's arc, would be reasonable. 1 hour ago, Hare_Mettle said: Once Oathbringer begins, Radiant Shallan has said her 1st, 2nd and 3rd Ideals off page, allowing her the abilites with Blade and Surgebindng that she gets from rebonding Pattern again. But here is the problem. All Shallans in OB were using Surgebinding on page. Your theory would need 3rd Cryptic to work. 1 hour ago, Hare_Mettle said: This also accounts for her having Shardplate people think she has at the end of Oathbringer in the battle. Or it was childhood Shallan having the 4th Ideal with Testament. I've missed that point in my theory. Good one. 1 hour ago, Hare_Mettle said: And then when Radiant Shallan with Pattern says the last line: “ "I killed her," Shallan whispered. "I killed my spren. My wonderful, beautiful, kindly spren. I broke my oaths, and I killed her." She is really saying TWO Truths which puts her Rebond with Pattern up to the 5th Ideal by the end of WoR…one ahead of Kaladin. You can't break your bond, deadeye your spren and then say next ideal - that's not like what was happening with Kaladin - he never fully deadeye Syl. Shallan did that. She needs to say all her Oaths again. From the very beginning to the last one she was when she had broken her bond. And we don't know if "I killed my spren" counts as her Truth with Testament or Pattern for now. Spoiler Questioner The dead Shardblades, could you possibly get Stormlight into them to reawaken them? Brandon Sanderson Dead Shardblade, could you pump enough Stormlight into them? That alone would not be enough. Questioner So you would have to find someone to re-swear with oaths? Brandon Sanderson There is something broken on the Spiritual Realm because of the broken oath and simple Stormlight will not fix that. Questioner So say-- Brandon Sanderson If the person were still alive and could re-swear the oath then yes. Questioner But someone like [...] could go [...] the Spiritual Realm? Brandon Sanderson It is not outside of reason but it would be very, very, very difficult. Firefight release party (Jan. 5, 2015) Spoiler enceladus_47 Does Shallan's "I killed my spren" count as a truth? Brandon Sanderson I'm gonna leave up to theorizing, figuring out the timeline that's going on with Shallan. What we can say is that Shallan is reconstructing, in many cases, oaths she has said before. And it is working slightly differently than someone who is saying new oaths. And indeed, saying she killed her spren is one of those steps. I'll leave it to you to try and parse through that. It's actually pretty complicated. We have a nice big page explaining all of this stuff internally, to make sure that we're keeping it all straight. Because she has violated oaths and reconstructed them, is basically what's happening. And she is regressing, and she's doing a... 1.1 steps forward, 1 step back, sort of thing, kind of frequently. YouTube Spoiler Stream 1 (Dec. 17, 2020) 1 hour ago, Hare_Mettle said: To really buy into this theory, you need to accept that BS is going to do something narratively funky with Shallan because of her conditions. This means a lot of things are happening off page…something he started to foreshadow in WoR with the locked box and all that. The problem here is that everything is happening off page. All of this. This can't work for readers. Yes, Shallan is unreliable, but to go this far just makes her a badly written character. It would be like focusing only on subverting expectations, rather than on good character development. And that's something Brandon won't do. He gave us multiple hints in WoK and WoR that Shallan killed her spren. As I said, looking at those parts from the perspective of RoW makes so much sense, now we know that she had 2 spren, she soulcasted with Testament in WoK, and why she doubted she was needing 10 heartbeats for summoning her Shardblade - because she was thinking about Testament. There is more to her past than we know. Yes, her flashback would be put into a new perspective after KoWT, but that's because there are hints there of what was happening. But putting all important stuff off page, sometimes even in between different chapters is just not something that is enjoyable to read. 1 hour ago, Hare_Mettle said: Let me know what you think. Sorry if I sound too harsh or critical. It's quite a big theory, you clearly put lots of thoughts into it. That's good. But as you can see, there are a lot of holes in it that I see. The most important one is this whole "off page" stuff. Everything can't be happening off page as that would make Shallan just redundant as a character. If you could point out some words, sentences, events from pages, where Shallan behaves suspiciously, said something weird, pointing towards your theory, then you would get some credibility. But basing everything on "off page" just doesn't work for me, when we're talking about a character that appeared in all 4 books of SA, that was known to be unreliable but still was leaving hints on page about her past and secrets hidden in her memories. But still it was fun to read and think about it. Edited June 11, 2023 by alder24 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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