Who is Hoid telling the story to?

[Guest]

I'm wondering if maybe we can figure out/narrow down both when and where Hoid is telling the story of Tress? I'm doing a re-read right now, so I'll be adding to this, but off the top of my head we know:

The planet he's on doesn't particularly value the position of helmsman. The "any kid can be a pilot" line. (Eliminates Theylena, probably Roshar as a whole. This point IMO also bumps Scadrial up in the running, as Allik's position as a pilot didn't seem to hold a particularly high status among the crew)

The planet has a sea. (Eliminates Taldain?)

Ships are landing on the planet.

The sorceress is Elantrian

The time period is obviously in the future, but can we determine how far?

 

Incomplete Planet list:

Taldain (No seas)

Scadrial (Pilot's aren't a particularly high rank)

Sel (Unlikely, considering who the sorceress is, though I suppose it possible that the Eyree could be invading their former homeworld to secure it)

Nalthis

Roshar (Piloting the ship is an honor)

First of the Sun

Threnody

 

Time periods:

Within a decade of the end of The Lost Metal

Before Sixth of the Dusk

Roughly same time as Sixth or the sequel chapter that was released

Substantially after Sixth of the Dusk

 

At the moment my best guess is that Tress takes place after The Lost Metal and before Sixth, but the storytelling itself is happening at roughly the same time as Sixth is taking place, and the story is either being told to someone on First of the Sun or Threnody, with Scadrial being a 3rd place pick.

[alder24]

1 hour ago, LabRat said:

At the moment my best guess is that Tress takes place after The Lost Metal and before Sixth, but the storytelling itself is happening at roughly the same time as Sixth is taking place, and the story is either being told to someone on First of the Sun or Threnody, with Scadrial being a 3rd place pick.

I'm almost sure it's First of the Sun. They don't know what laptops are (he calls them magical tablets for the sake of his audience), that means they aren't technologically developed, have talking spaceships landing there, with which aren't familiar, Hoid also mentioned something about sailing around the world with no Aviar, aren't familiar with Aons.

This must be happening shortly before or around the time of SotD. Planets like Roshar, Scadrial, Nalthis or Taldain (has oceans) would be familiar with concepts like laptops, AI, objects talking and so on.

Quote

Perhaps you would prefer a story about someone facing a dragon. Well, this isn’t that kind of story. (Which makes it even more remarkable that Tress still does that eventually. But kindly stop getting ahead of me.) I can understand why you would want tales of people like Linji, who tried to sail around the world with no Aviar.

 

Quote

“As you wish,” a monotone voice said. It was the spirit that inhabited this place, you see, obeying the will of its owner. Yes, like the speaking minds inhabiting the ships you’ve seen landing on your planet.

 

Spoiler

Scotch the Piper

Who is Hoid, as the narrator, telling the story [Tress] to?

Brandon Sanderson

That is a RAFO in that I believe it is evident in the books. Well... I believe some of it is evident. Not the specific individuals, but this far enough in the future of the Cosmere that I don't want to talk about individuals he might be speaking to. You can figure out the general tone; and people have. It was very clear, I think, to fans when they started posting. So you can ask on a fan forum, if you want them to give their thoughts; but I'm not gonna speak more than that.

There's stuff that is relating to all of this that I can't even talk about yet, because it gives too many spoilers. I'll be able to talk about them soon. Give me a couple years, and I can start talking more about timeline and when certain things are happening that I just can't do at the moment because of certain spoilerific reasons.

Tress Spoiler Stream (March 31, 2023)

 

I don't think Threnody is a possibility - there is Evil on one continent, the other is full of Shades and sailing there or landing with spaceships is just too dangerous.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Taldain (has oceans)

I don't think Threnody is a possibility - there is Evil on one continent, the other is full of Shades and sailing there or landing with spaceships is just too dangerous.

 

Taldain has oceans? I missed that when I read the comic, though I did only read it once.

As for Threnody, IMO the Shades and Evil make it more of a possibility. We've seen Aviar on other worlds (Eg. RoW), and I can't think of a planet where hiding your mind/blocking Investiture would be more useful than on a continent inhabited by Cognitive Shadows trying to murder everyone, so a captains Aviar could be a requirement for any navy vessel except for Linji. I would even argue that (part of) the reason the Ones Above want the Aviar is so they can explore Threnody fully and potentially calm/control the Investiture source known as the Evil.

 

As a side note, Linji is DEFINITLY not a Threnody name, and it doesn't seem like a likely First of the Sun name. A quick Google identifies it as a Chinese name (Specifially a Buddhist from 866), implying that Linji could have been a visitor from Sel. Given that, the fact that them sailing sans-Aviar is noteworthy adds weight to the idea that the listener is from First of the Sun, and also gives us some information regarding the Ones Above.

[alder24]

1 minute ago, LabRat said:

Taldain has oceans? I missed that when I read the comic, though I did only read it once.

Yes, they separate the dayside from the nightside, but I think there are some harsh storms in between and it's hard to traverse them.

Spoiler

 

3 minutes ago, LabRat said:

As for Threnody, IMO the Shades and Evil make it more of a possibility. We've seen Aviar on other worlds (Eg. RoW), and I can't think of a planet where hiding your mind/blocking Investiture would be more useful than on a continent inhabited by Cognitive Shadows trying to murder everyone, so a captains Aviar could be a requirement for any navy vessel except for Linji. I would even argue that (part of) the reason the Ones Above want the Aviar is so they can explore Threnody fully and potentially calm/control the Investiture source known as the Evil.

That's a very interesting observation, and that begs the question - can a coppercloud/Aviar hide you from Shades? Shades not only exist in CR but also in PR and simply using their sight might be enough to locate you. But that's a very interesting possibility.

10 minutes ago, LabRat said:

As a side note, Linji is DEFINITLY not a Threnody name, and it doesn't seem like a likely First of the Sun name. A quick Google identifies it as a Chinese name (Specifially a Buddhist from 866), implying that Linji could have been a visitor from Sel. Given that, the fact that them sailing sans-Aviar is noteworthy adds weight to the idea that the listener is from First of the Sun, and also gives us some information regarding the Ones Above.

I think Linji sounds fitting for SotD - there are more names that Sixth of the Dusk on the First of the Sun - like Vathi, Patji, Sori, Yaalani or Kokerlii among others. Those are ending with the letter i and Linji fits this pattern, but there are also other names like Sak, Mirris, Sisisru, Eusto or Winds, which don't end with the letter i, but are still short. 

Now after looking at the names it makes me even more sure that the story is told on the First of the Sun.

[+Harrycrapper]

3 hours ago, LabRat said:

Taldain has oceans? I missed that when I read the comic, though I did only read it once.

They cut part of the opening sequence of White Sand which involves Khriss and her companions arriving on Dayside via boat out of the graphic novels. Can't remember if it was in the Graphic Audio version, I think it was in there though. And I consider the Graphic Audio version to be the most canon because it's officially published and has a lot of information the graphic novels just couldn't convey with the limited amount of text they can fit in dialogue/thought bubbles.

I've been convinced it's being told to someone(s) on First of the Sun for a while though. The "speaking minds inhabiting ships you've seen landing on your planet" combined with the fact that Brandon thought we should be able to figure out who it is given some clues makes me believe that this is simpler than most people are making it. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, alder24 said:

I think Linji sounds fitting for SotD - there are more names that Sixth of the Dusk on the First of the Sun - like Vathi, Patji, Sori, Yaalani or Kokerlii among others. Those are ending with the letter i and Linji fits this pattern, but there are also other names like Sak, Mirris, Sisisru, Eusto or Winds, which don't end with the letter i, but are still short. 

Now after looking at the names it makes me even more sure that the story is told on the First of the Sun.

My assumption, based on things I remember from Writing Excuses, was that the FofS culture, or at least Trapper culture, was based on Indonesian culture (and other surrounding areas). Having just looked up a lot of those names, some are Indian (some variation in spelling, eg. Vaathi), some Korean, one is South African, and a lot of them return no results, so I'm not sure what conclusion to draw from that.  That said, Linji gave me a very definite Chinese result, which none of those others did.

That said, on balance of probability I agree First of the Sun is the most likely location. I'm just searching for as many holes as possible to poke in that assumption, hoping something fun/surprising falls out.

[alder24]

4 minutes ago, LabRat said:

My assumption, based on things I remember from Writing Excuses, was that the FofS culture, or at least Trapper culture, was based on Indonesian culture (and other surrounding areas). Having just looked up a lot of those names, some are Indian (some variation in spelling, eg. Vaathi), some Korean, one is South African, and a lot of them return no results, so I'm not sure what conclusion to draw from that.  That said, Linji gave me a very definite Chinese result, which none of those others did.

That said, on balance of probability I agree First of the Sun is the most likely location. I'm just searching for as many holes as possible to poke in that assumption, hoping something fun/surprising falls out.

Tbf there aren't many planets known to us on which talking spaceships, not understandable for the local population, could land in the far future.