Tamriel Wolfsbaine Posted December 22, 2022 Posted December 22, 2022 I am trying to understand copper allomancy better. We have seen it used to block emotional allomancy and we have seen it at least dampen rhythms. Is emotional allomancy a cognitive effect? Brandon has mentioned that spren would act weird in a copper cloud. Does that weirdness cross realms at all? Is soulcasting accomplished through rhythm changes at all? I believe a coppercloud is enough of a disruption and investiture to make it a viable defensive option vs soulcasting. Is it doing that via blocking out the rhythms being sent from a soulcaster to their intended objects of change? If it is, would the cloud prevent soulcasting things in the immediate vicinity of the coppercloud with the resistance to soulcasting weakening as the cloud gets thinner as they soulcast further away from the coppercloud? Would this be a bigger issue if the coppercloud was a savant? Do you think spren and radiant communication could be effected in a coppercloud or the ability for spren to function in the proper way may be effected? A lot of this will end up being RAFO I am sure but do you think copper is going to be able to play a larger role in the future of the cosmere?
Werewolff Studios he/him Posted December 22, 2022 Posted December 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: We have seen it used to block emotional allomancy and we have seen it at least dampen rhythms. Just a quick expansion regarding this line for relevance - the Smoker themselves is protected while burning copper, but those in the coppercloud aren't typically unless the Smoker is particular adept (potentially savant level). WOB below: Quote Questioner Can Copperclouds shield others' emotions? Brandon Sanderson Oh okay. Did we put that in Alloy of Law in the Ars Arcanum? Is that where you read it? Questioner I forget. I don't remember where it is. Brandon Sanderson I believe it’s in the Ars Arcanum, which in Alloy of Law was put together by Peter. And that’s mostly a mistake, though the thing is the Role Playing Game came to me and said “Is it feasible that this could happen?” And I said “It’s perhaps feasible, but only a very rare individual could make this work if they knew exactly what they were doing.” And so I said “Yeah, go ahead, but make it a power that someone really has to know what they’re doing to make it work.” And so they put it in, and so Peter assumed that it was canon, that anyone can do it, but that’s not what I intended. Questioner So would it be easier to say that somebody discovered they could do it and now they are training copperclouds to do it? Brandon Sanderson I would say that it is viable that someone could figure it out, but it would be a very difficult thing to train, and it is not a common Coppercloud—A common Coppercloud isn’t going to be able to be doing it, and almost no Mistborn will ever be capable of doing it, they just don’t focus on that metal enough to learn it. Of course, there aren’t Mistborn around anymore. So it is a possible power, it is plausible, but it is not the standard. Perhaps I will allow it to become the standard eventually, but it’s not right now. It would be much easier to wear a tinfoil hat. (laughter) Aluminum, aluminum. Which does work. West Jordan signing (Dec. 15, 2011) However, I think your line of thinking regarding other forms of Investiture is quite sound and very interesting! It'll certainly play a big role in the future of the cosmere for sure, certainly for shielding secretive meetings, strike teams and spies (since it blocks Awakeners Life Sense and secretspren detection abilities). 11 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: Is emotional allomancy a cognitive effect? Is soulcasting accomplished through rhythm changes at all? I believe a coppercloud is enough of a disruption and investiture to make it a viable defensive option vs soulcasting. Is it doing that via blocking out the rhythms being sent from a soulcaster to their intended objects of change? If it is, would the cloud prevent soulcasting things in the immediate vicinity of the coppercloud with the resistance to soulcasting weakening as the cloud gets thinner as they soulcast further away from the coppercloud? Would this be a bigger issue if the coppercloud was a savant? The Soulcasting facet is interesting. While I don't feel that Soulcasting is Rhythm heavy specifically, it does require looking into the Cognitive Realm as you are changing something's Cognitive aspect, which forces the Physical Aspect to change as well. I believe that emotional Allomancy works in a similar way (though to a far lesser degree). If this is true then, based on the above WOB, I would infer that a normal Smoker themselves would be highly resistant to Soulcasting, but other people and objects within their Coppercloud won't be as highly protected (unless the Smoker was a savant, perhaps). All of this depends on the relative strength and skill of the Soulcaster though, as well as what objects they are trying to change. 19 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: Do you think spren and radiant communication could be effected in a coppercloud or the ability for spren to function in the proper way may be effected? I don't think direct Spren and Radiant communication will be heavily effected (maybe a slight muffling) as their spiritwebs are too directly infused. It might dampen their effectiveness communicating with others though. I think the biggest copper-spren affects though are going to be with the non-sentient spren, as it dampens Investiture. It might create zones where those lesser spren just can't sense the cognitive aspects of those within the coppercloud, and thus don't appear. Loving the inquest though! This is the kind of theorizing that I love - thinking about the intersections of magical abilities and how they play off each other.
therunner he/him Posted December 22, 2022 Posted December 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: I believe a coppercloud is enough of a disruption and investiture to make it a viable defensive option vs soulcasting. Is it doing that via blocking out the rhythms being sent from a soulcaster to their intended objects of change? If it is, would the cloud prevent soulcasting things in the immediate vicinity of the coppercloud with the resistance to soulcasting weakening as the cloud gets thinner as they soulcast further away from the coppercloud? Would this be a bigger issue if the coppercloud was a savant? Do you think spren and radiant communication could be effected in a coppercloud or the ability for spren to function in the proper way may be effected? A lot of this will end up being RAFO I am sure but do you think copper is going to be able to play a larger role in the future of the cosmere? I don't think coppercloud would prevent soulcasting as it seems Brandon intends (thought he can change his mind) for Aluminum grenades to create fields where Invested abilities cannot be used (and so presumably long-range ones cannot be used on anything inside). If copper blocked also blocked invested abilities, that would be quite an overlap, which he typically does not do. I see copper more as 'interference'? So it would hinder communications, etc. (so if only one of Radiant and spren was in coppercloud, they could not communicate properly), that goes along with the fact that it blocks Bronze which detects things. And generally other examples of Copper were only blocking sense (life sense, voidspren detecting surges, etc.). It seems that the only active ability it blocks is Emotional allomancy, and only for the Misting/Mistborn. Along those lines it would probably help against attacks that go directly after their mind (i.e. they could maybe resist the compulsion from Nightblood better). WoB below Quote Rodrigo What would be the difference between an aluminum and a chromium grenade, and between nicrosil and duralumin grenades? Brandon Sanderson We're talking specifically about the Bands of Mourning ones? *Matt affirms* So, what would be the difference? Aluminum would create a sort of "You can't use Allomancy in this... nearby this" most likely, yeah. Duralumin would do the opposite. You would be able to use it and then enhance someone. I haven't played with the ranges on these things yet, and so that's where we get into kind of the question mark territory. Like, right now, I haven't really given them an area of effect unless the power itself has an area of effect. Does that make sense? But, my intent is to get to the point where it's doing things like this, right. Where you could theoretically be an Aluminum Gnat, you could charge this thing up and throw. And hey, you know, you have... the Metalborn nearby are unable to use their talents. That's convenient, right? Like, I want more of the powers to be relevant and these grenades are a way to do that. You know, Marasi's power is not the most useful on the planet to have herself. For those who don't know, she can slow down time... well, speed up time? Awkward how... the phrasing of how you do that. But basically she can make a bubble around herself where everyone outside of it moves super fast. That's not terribly useful, right? Unless you want to age, you know, really slowly. [...] Not really useful in combat, to be able to be like "Yeah, I'm gonna make all my enemies move really, really fast and I can't respond to them". But, she can charge up one of those grenades and toss it, it becomes real handy. For her, the grenades are more useful than the inverse, right, because speeding up someone is useful, but slowing someone down takes someone out of the battle essentially. Or a whole globe of them... globe is the wrong term, but yeah. The Dusty Wheel Show (June 17, 2021) 1
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