Mist and ash spren origins

[Sky Breaker]

So I have been thinking about radiant spren lately and mist spren and ash spren keep standing out to me and I think I have an idea why they’re so different. My theory is that they weren’t originally imagined by rosharans but were originally imagined by scadrains. The reason I think this is because every other sapient spren resembles something common to roshar like how peak spren look like the horn eater peaks and the cultivation spren look like vines, but on a world where they use spheres instead of fire and don’t get much mist, it doesn’t make much sense that they would have ash spren and mist spren which is why I think they are if not from at least imagined by the people of scadrial. And when you think about it this way it makes much more sense like it explains why ash spren seem like the are more like splinters of ruin more than cultivation or honor. Another thing is that the mist spren seem to embody mystery and that could be explained by the mystery and taboo surrounding the mists on scadrial.      
 

 

   Also mist spren have masks that look like southern scadrians *mike drop*

P.S. sorry I accidentally posted this twice I’m still getting used to this website

Edited December 13, 2022 by Sky Breaker

[Mr. Misting he/him]

I think that though this is an interesting theory, there are few leaps in logic that make this to hard for me to believe. 

Though in retrospect it seems coincidental that there are both ashspren and mistspren, both big parts of the Scadrian system, I think that other spren are just as weird. Highspren are tears into the void that for some reason are very law oriented. Those two don't really make sense together. Inkspren are based off a very specific way to write stuff down. In general I would say a decent amount of the higher spren are not based highly generalized ideals. I wouldn't say there is any more mist and ash then there is starry voids and, um, whatever Cryptics are. Ashspren and Mistspren don't seem like outliers.

Also, for this theory to function we either need a large number of Scadrians to have been on Roshar and have influenced the cognitive realm or have ash and mistspren migrate to Roshar after existing on Scadrial. Neither of these make a ton of sense.

Having a large enough number of scadrians live on Roshar long enough to change how the spren are made seems extremely unlikely to me. First off, some of the spren were formed before the Shattering happened, before Scadrial even existed. Second, having enough Scadrians somehow move to Roshar and create a big enough effect on the cognitive realm seems like that number would have to be extremely high. To high to be likely or make sense logistically. Also, we would probably have to see some descendants in the modern day.

As for the second option, having the aspren and mistspren get created on Scadrial move to Roshar that also feels flawed. They would have to all collectively move, choose to change there name to spren and somehow still be compatible as Knight Radiant's spren. I don't think cognitive beings that weren't created from Honor and Cultivation would function as Knight Radiants spren. 

For a final reason this doesn't work: the Ashmounts were created in the last thousand years. Though we don't have the dates, I'm pretty dang sure the Heralds were starting the Knight Radiants at that point. The timeline simply doesn't work.

Cool theory, but I think it for the reasons highlighted above, it doesn't work.

 

Slight note, maybe consider a different title? You didn't really talk about Deadeyes or Bo-Ado Mishram. Just a thought.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Ookla the Kobold

[Sky Breaker]

I have taken this into consideration and I came up with some ideas 

first, how the scadrian intent effected rosharan spren 

So there is this one wob that I can’t find but it says that if a piece of investiture is seen as something it will adopt similar intent he said for example if a piece of endowment were cut off and was seen as something of ruin it would then have more connection to ruin even if not originally a part of ruin I think something similar is happening where dustbringers and to an extent the ash spren where seen as of ruin then they will become more connected to scadrial. 
Second, the ash mounts 

I think there is an explanation in the epigraphs when Sazed is explaining what the Rashek did he says he awakened the ash mounts which means they could have previously existed 

And third most of the radiant spren don’t make sense 

when you think about it for longer some of the other ones actually make sense for example cryptics represent patterns and there heads are fractals which are usually graphed patterns in nature. You have high spren who look like cut outs of space and most people who think of the laws of physics think of space and you have ink spren who represent truth and bond scholars and they look like ink.

Four I accidentally put the wrong name on it that is the name of another theory I’ve been think about 

[Werewolff Studios he/him]

2 hours ago, Sky Breaker said:

So I have been thinking about radiant spren lately and mist spren and ash spren keep standing out to me and I think I have an idea why they’re so different. My theory is that they weren’t originally imagined by rosharans but were originally imagined by scadrains. The reason I think this is because every other sapient spren resembles something common to roshar like how peak spren look like the horn eater peaks and the cultivation spren look like vines, but on a world where they use spheres instead of fire and don’t get much mist, it doesn’t make much sense that they would have ash spren and mist spren which is why I think they are if not from at least imagined by the people of scadrial. And when you think about it this way it makes much more sense like it explains why ash spren seem like the are more like splinters of ruin more than cultivation or honor. Another thing is that the mist spren seem to embody mystery and that could be explained by the mystery and taboo surrounding the mists on scadrial.      
 

 

   Also mist spren have masks that look like southern scadrians *mike drop*

P.S. sorry I accidentally posted this twice I’m still getting used to this website

Really interesting point about the masks! Hadn't noticed that before.

For me though, I don't think the appearance of the spren themselves are terribly unusual. The Rosharans still use fires fairly regularly. Spheres don't cook things after all, plus we see flamespren quite a few times throughout the series. So I don't feel it's unlikely Rosharans could cognitively generate ashspren. 

In addition, the amount of moisture that fills Rosharan air (especially after a highstorm) would have ample opportunity to generate mists. There's also a lot of water in general, meaning early ocean mists would be fairly common. There's also a lot of foggy scenes mentioned as well. Again, over generations this would make a cognitive sense.

As @Ookla the Kobold also pointed out, the Radiants predate a lot of Scadrial history too, and there's evidence that some spren predate the shattering.

Quote

Wetlander

So is that like the mists and the Well? Are they...

Brandon Sanderson

They are not, because they have not attained self-awareness. But, the Seons are self-aware. So, any piece, for instance there were some spren on Roshar before Honor and Cultivation got there. Those were already Splinters of Adonalsium where he had left power which attained sentience on its own. So, it can be intentional is what I am saying, does that make sense? You have seen other Splinters.

Steelheart Seattle signing (Oct. 14, 2013)

Now, does that mean there's absolutely no connection with Scadrial, the literal mist planet? I suppose we'll have to wait and see...

Interesting theorizing though!

[EmulatonStromenkiin he/him]

16 hours ago, Ookla the Kobold said:

whatever Cryptics are

I am like 99 % certain that Cryptics are irrational numbers.

[offer]

58 minutes ago, Ookla the Quark said:

I am like 99 % certain that Cryptics are irrational numbers.

Cryptics are the representation of the natural laws of the universe - those laws contains (or use) irrational numbers but the cryptics are not only irrational numbers.

[FadeAJ]

This is an old thread, but I was just reading Rythem of War again and had this exact thought, but the opposite. Would it be possible that some Scadrians traveled to the Rosharan system a long time ago, and met mistspren, since they are the most common sailors, and then after seeing them as mystical or divinities, started wearing masks to imitate them?

[Through The Living Grub He/Him]

10 hours ago, FadeAJ said:

This is an old thread, but I was just reading Rythem of War again and had this exact thought, but the opposite. Would it be possible that some Scadrians traveled to the Rosharan system a long time ago, and met mistspren, since they are the most common sailors, and then after seeing them as mystical or divinities, started wearing masks to imitate them?

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