Tamriel Wolfsbaine Posted November 21, 2022 Posted November 21, 2022 I was thinking about lifeless this morning and how I am not a huge fan of reanimated human bodies... for what its worth I am also not a giant fan of reanimated anything but I was definately more on board with the squirrel than the lifeless which got me thinking about some of the creatures on Roshar. Do lifeless eat? I don't know that it is a requirement for them but if they can eat then could a lifeless larkin be used as a mobile safe form of leeching for an awakener who found one? It follows your command and it would be highly unlikely a person would command it to feed on themselves I imagine. A small pack of lifeless whitespines... who wouldn't want to be hunted by them? But then I thought bigger, which led me to my next question. Vashers command that allows for 1 breath awakening even of the squirrel, would it work on a chasmfiend? Reanimating a gigantic chitinlined ally could be well used as a strategy.
Spearguy Posted November 21, 2022 Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) If I'm not mistaken the one word command only works after using Ichor alcohol on a human body. also Rosharen life as not as human-like may be a bit harder to awaken a mammal corpse of the same size. Although that might work differently for Singers (does anyone have any WOB's on why things that are human shaped are easier to awaken?) Edited November 21, 2022 by Spearguy 1
Tamriel Wolfsbaine Posted November 21, 2022 Author Posted November 21, 2022 44 minutes ago, Spearguy said: If I'm not mistaken the one word command only works after using Ichor alcohol on a human body. also Rosharen life as not as human-like may be a bit harder to awaken a mammal corpse of the same size. Although that might work differently for Singers (does anyone have any WOB's on why things that are human shaped are easier to awaken?) I believe I remember reading something about it being a matter of identity and what that breath really belongs too. (Whether it was the holder of breath or the breath itself that pertained to I can't remember). I really need to reread warbreaker because I honestly don't remember that command requiring ichor alcohol. I remember vasher using the squirrel but it could very well be that it cost more than the 1 breath given the size and shape of the animal. I imagine anything that was alive would work better than not. Wouldn't awakening a critter on roshar be about the same as awakening a really big crab or lobster?
Quantus he/him Posted November 21, 2022 Posted November 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: I was thinking about lifeless this morning and how I am not a huge fan of reanimated human bodies... for what its worth I am also not a giant fan of reanimated anything but I was definately more on board with the squirrel than the lifeless which got me thinking about some of the creatures on Roshar. Do lifeless eat? I don't know that it is a requirement for them but if they can eat then could a lifeless larkin be used as a mobile safe form of leeching for an awakener who found one? It follows your command and it would be highly unlikely a person would command it to feed on themselves I imagine. A small pack of lifeless whitespines... who wouldn't want to be hunted by them? But then I thought bigger, which led me to my next question. Vashers command that allows for 1 breath awakening even of the squirrel, would it work on a chasmfiend? Reanimating a gigantic chitinlined ally could be well used as a strategy. No, they do not eat. But per WOB anything that significantly Invests a Lifeless would run the risk of making it "not a Lifeless anymore" which most likely means reawaken to sapience as some sort of Cognitive Shadow, so a Lifeless Larkin might not last. There's probably a practical limit to how big of a creature a single Breath can animate, since things like Physical Strength and Senses have quantifiable Investiture costs (even if we dont have the numbers). But then on roshar everything and everyone is a bit more saturated by Investure anyway thanks to the Storm, so that and some spren might supplement what they need. It would still be vulnerable to a Larkin or Leecher, regardless of size. 47 minutes ago, Spearguy said: If I'm not mistaken the one word command only works after using Ichor alcohol on a human body. also Rosharen life as not as human-like may be a bit harder to awaken a mammal corpse of the same size. Although that might work differently for Singers (does anyone have any WOB's on why things that are human shaped are easier to awaken?) Nah, those were separate developments in the Manywar srms race. Shashara made the 1-breath command which changed the lifeless solder economics and leaked it, then Yesteel made the Ichor Alcohol that made the Lifeless easier to make and last longer. Prior to this, a lifeless would need more and more breaths to keep it moving as it rotted.
Tamriel Wolfsbaine Posted November 21, 2022 Author Posted November 21, 2022 10 minutes ago, Quantus said: No, they do not eat. But per WOB anything that significantly Invests a Lifeless would run the risk of making it "not a Lifeless anymore" which most likely means reawaken to sapience as some sort of Cognitive Shadow, so a Lifeless Larkin might not last. There's probably a practical limit to how big of a creature a single Breath can animate, since things like Physical Strength and Senses have quantifiable Investiture costs (even if we dont have the numbers). But then on roshar everything and everyone is a bit more saturated by Investure anyway thanks to the Storm, so that and some spren might supplement what they need. It would still be vulnerable to a Larkin or Leecher, regardless of size. Nah, those were separate developments in the Manywar srms race. Shashara made the 1-breath command which changed the lifeless solder economics and leaked it, then Yesteel made the Ichor Alcohol that made the Lifeless easier to make and last longer. Prior to this, a lifeless would need more and more breaths to keep it moving as it rotted. So a larkin lifeless could likely still consume investiture but after enough time could become no longer a lifeless? I imagine it would be safe for the awakener to be near it in lifeless form as it would be following commands to consume what investiture the person with command of it would have it consume... at least until it had consumed enough to ascend past lifelessness into whatever next form it would take. I also believe I remember lifeless being less of what they were. Ichor alcohol allows a lifeless to take a significantly larger beating but they are slower and less than they were in life as well right? How do you think a lifeless whitespine would stand against a living version of whitespine?
Quantus he/him Posted November 21, 2022 Posted November 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: So a larkin lifeless could likely still consume investiture but after enough time could become no longer a lifeless? I imagine it would be safe for the awakener to be near it in lifeless form as it would be following commands to consume what investiture the person with command of it would have it consume... at least until it had consumed enough to ascend past lifelessness into whatever next form it would take. "Safe" for the awakener, not for his Breath stores. And not at all if they're a Returned, because a Larkin can munch that breath too. 3 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: I also believe I remember lifeless being less of what they were. Ichor alcohol allows a lifeless to take a significantly larger beating but they are slower and less than they were in life as well right? How do you think a lifeless whitespine would stand against a living version of whitespine? They are less invested for most magical purposes but the whole point is that they are pretty close to living soldiers in a Fight, and retain some of their skills and training. Given the whitespine is working on instinct rather than training, I think the gap is likely to be less in terms of fighting skill, and a living Whitespine will probably get freaked out by a zombie. On the other hand they can still bleed out their ichor to stop or attack joints and whatnot, so the animal's tactics would still be effective.
Tamriel Wolfsbaine Posted November 21, 2022 Author Posted November 21, 2022 11 minutes ago, Quantus said: "Safe" for the awakener, not for his Breath stores. And not at all if they're a Returned, because a Larkin can munch that breath too. That is what I am trying to understand. Is a Larkins feeding process a passive thing or more of an active "I'm going to eat your investiture now"? If a person wakes one up and the Larkin no longer requires food to survive could the awakener not command it to feed on radiant X across the room? The larkin doesn't have to feed and per the existence of a command system the person who awakened it would have the ability to expressly forbid it from feeding on their investiture no? Nale didn't seem super worried about his own stormlight nor the stormlight presumably being used to light the building when he drained Lift of her reserves. It seemed a very targeted attack at her investiture specifically. Wouldn't a lifeless larkin be even less likely to turn on its creator? Also would the stormlight, being so leaky, leak out overtime keeping said larkin lifeless so long as it didn't feed too much at any one time? Or do you think it will be totally cumulative?
Quantus he/him Posted November 21, 2022 Posted November 21, 2022 5 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: That is what I am trying to understand. Is a Larkins feeding process a passive thing or more of an active "I'm going to eat your investiture now"? It's active, but it's also has child/animal intelligence (at the sizes we've seen) so "accidents" could theoretically happen. Just ask any french fries left unattended near my dog. It would depend on the Commands used and probably your own general skills as a Lifeless handler, 5 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: If a person wakes one up and the Larkin no longer requires food to survive could the awakener not command it to feed on radiant X across the room? The larkin doesn't have to feed and per the existence of a command system the person who awakened it would have the ability to expressly forbid it from feeding on their investiture no? You could try, if you are confident in your Commands and your Lifeless Larkin's ability to differentiate they way you want them too. And if you arent standing too close to your actual target when you tell them too feed (I think it's sort of a cone are effect). 5 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: Nale didn't seem super worried about his own stormlight nor the stormlight presumably being used to light the building when he drained Lift of her reserves. It seemed a very targeted attack at her investiture specifically. Wouldn't a lifeless larkin be even less likely to turn on its creator? Also would the stormlight, being so leaky, leak out overtime keeping said larkin lifeless so long as it didn't feed too much at any one time? Or do you think it will be totally cumulative? Stormlight would be a whole different set of concerns, and far fewer because it's so abundant and none of the characters are being supported by ongoing investiture. Breaths are far more difficult to come by, and per WOB a Returned would be vulnerable to a Larkin's feeding. Heralds arent, apparently, likely for the same reason Larkin can drain a fabrial without destroying the Spren inside. I suspect the Larkin wouldnt drain the Divine Breath itself, ,rather they would instead be draining the Returned's Investiture, shortcutting them to the end-of-the-week feeding without any Investiture to feed it, and they "die" by their normal starvation mode. 1
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