SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword Posted October 6, 2022 Posted October 6, 2022 It's pretty straight forward, I think that Mercy's vessel is Senna. The way Leras invokes the name is what makes me suspect this. " Oh, Senna ... I'm losing this place. Losing them all ... " -Preservation It's like he is calling out for mercy, or perhaps, Mercy.. 4
Quantus he/him Posted October 7, 2022 Posted October 7, 2022 I dont think this Mercy is going to be that benevolent at all, from what little we know of their actions. I think Mercy is the Anti-Honor. Were (per this WOB) Honor is about being Bound by the fabricated rules of people and Society, Mercy is all about disregarding those same rules. And just like Honor can become pretty awful if it isnt restrained by empathy, Mercy is supposed to be a rare exception to the norm for benevolent and/or Greater Good purposes, but can very easily slip into "Watch the World Burn" Agent of Chaos territory when done purely for it's own sake. 1
Returned he/him Posted October 7, 2022 Posted October 7, 2022 I think we also need to consider Autonomy's example: Autonomy for me, but not for the rest of you. Autonomy is known to be interfering all over the Cosmere but is viciously resistant to others' actions on Taldain. We might see a similar twisting in Mercy, even if it's hard to imagine exactly what that would look like in this specific case. 1
SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword Posted October 7, 2022 Author Posted October 7, 2022 6 hours ago, Quantus said: I dont think this Mercy is going to be that benevolent at all, from what little we know of their actions. I think Mercy is the Anti-Honor. Were (per this WOB) Honor is about being Bound by the fabricated rules of people and Society, Mercy is all about disregarding those same rules. And just like Honor can become pretty awful if it isnt restrained by empathy, Mercy is supposed to be a rare exception to the norm for benevolent and/or Greater Good purposes, but can very easily slip into "Watch the World Burn" Agent of Chaos territory when done purely for it's own sake. Sorry if I'm missing something, but was there supposed to be a link to the WoB in there?
Quantus he/him Posted October 11, 2022 Posted October 11, 2022 On 10/7/2022 at 6:08 PM, SwordNimiForPresident said: Sorry if I'm missing something, but was there supposed to be a link to the WoB in there? Yup, sorry Quote Questioner Shards. We started with fairly obvious ones, magic wise. Trying to keep this spoiler free, so: Ruin, Preservation, this kind of thing. Then we get the weird ones. Why do we have Shards that can only exist in the mind of a sentient creature? ...Like the concept of Honor can only be done when it's carried out, essentially, by a sentient creature. Brandon Sanderson So when I split Adonalsium I said, "I'm going to take aspects of Adonalsium's nature." And this involves personality to me. So the Shattering of Adonalsium was primal forces attached to certain aspects of personality. And so I view every one of them this way. And when I wrote Mistborn we had Ruin and Preservation. They are the primal forces of entropy and whatever you call the opposite, staying-the-same-ism-y. Like, you've got these two contrasts, between things changing and things not changing. And then humans do have a part, there's a personality. Ruin is a charged term for something that actually is the way that life exists. And Preservation is a charged term for stasis, for staying the same. And those are the personality aspects, and the way they are viewed by people and by the entity that was Adonalsium. So I view this for all of them. Like, Honor is the sense of being bound by rules, even when those rules, you wouldn't have to be bound by. And there's this sense that that is noble, that's the honor aspect to it, but there's also something not honorable about Honor if taken from the other direction. So a lot of them do kind of have this both-- cultural component, I would say, that is trying to represent something that is also natural. And not all of them are gonna have a 100% balance between those two things, I would say, because there's only so many fundamental laws of the universe that I can ascribe personalities to in that way. So I find Honor very interesting, but I find Autonomy a very interesting one for the exact same reason. What does autonomy mean? We attach a lot to it, but what is the actual, if you get rid of the charged terms, what does it mean? And this is where you end up with things like Odium claiming "I am all emotion." Rather than-- But then there's a charged term for it that is associated with this Shard. I'm not going to tell you whether he's right or not, but he has an argument. Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)
SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword Posted October 11, 2022 Author Posted October 11, 2022 2 hours ago, Quantus said: Yup, sorry I see your meaning now. I honestly think that he is just trying to express that there is such a thing as to much of a good thing. Taking Preservation (who I would call a "good" Shard) as an example, if the Shard had total dominion it would effectively end the Universe by freezing everything in place. This isn't to say that I don't think Mercy's vessel will be broken, I think that all of the Vessels are broken. I think Mercy will probably be in an overwhelmed state because it is trying to make excuses for every bad thing that happens. In my personal grouping of Shards I've always paired Honor with Ambition. One is being bound by rules the other is pushing boundaries. There's also the way that Honor is about serving something external to the self while Ambition is basically selfish. I see them as the "good" and "bad" sides of the same coin. A tangentially interesting thing about this pairing is that in German, Honor is "ehre" and Ambition is "ehrgeiz" (translates to honor greed). I think Mercy's partner Shard is one of the two that we are still missing. I expect it to be something along the lines of Justice or Vengeance. It could also be the ultimate extreme of Cruelty, but I think that ones a long shot. That's all head cannon obviously so do with it what you will. Long story short. I think Mercy is a "good" Shard, insofar as any of them are "good", but only time will tell. Thanks for the WoB.
Adamkarma he/him Posted October 11, 2022 Posted October 11, 2022 12 hours ago, SwordNimiForPresident said: I see your meaning now. I honestly think that he is just trying to express that there is such a thing as to much of a good thing. Taking Preservation (who I would call a "good" Shard) as an example, if the Shard had total dominion it would effectively end the Universe by freezing everything in place. This isn't to say that I don't think Mercy's vessel will be broken, I think that all of the Vessels are broken. I think Mercy will probably be in an overwhelmed state because it is trying to make excuses for every bad thing that happens. In my personal grouping of Shards I've always paired Honor with Ambition. One is being bound by rules the other is pushing boundaries. There's also the way that Honor is about serving something external to the self while Ambition is basically selfish. I see them as the "good" and "bad" sides of the same coin. A tangentially interesting thing about this pairing is that in German, Honor is "ehre" and Ambition is "ehrgeiz" (translates to honor greed). I think Mercy's partner Shard is one of the two that we are still missing. I expect it to be something along the lines of Justice or Vengeance. It could also be the ultimate extreme of Cruelty, but I think that ones a long shot. That's all head cannon obviously so do with it what you will. Long story short. I think Mercy is a "good" Shard, insofar as any of them are "good", but only time will tell. Thanks for the WoB. Not ALL of them are broken. Cultivation isn't broken. She just want to plant trees.
SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword Posted October 11, 2022 Author Posted October 11, 2022 38 minutes ago, Adamkarma said: Not ALL of them are broken. Cultivation isn't broken. She just want to plant trees. I don’t have the book on me, but I think someone mentions that she is completely obsessed with transformation regardless of its form or function, similar to how Honor became obsessed with oaths, even stupid or pointless ones. I could be remembering incorrectly though.
Adamkarma he/him Posted October 11, 2022 Posted October 11, 2022 1 minute ago, SwordNimiForPresident said: I don’t have the book on me, but I think someone mentions that she is completely obsessed with transformation regardless of its form or function, similar to how Honor became obsessed with oaths, even stupid or pointless ones. I could be remembering incorrectly though. No one is perfect. Even Adonalsium wasn't perfect. But there are flaws that are bad but OK. But other ones (like the destruction of all Shards) are a BIG no no. But I agree that she is obsessed with transformation.
Returned he/him Posted October 11, 2022 Posted October 11, 2022 Are they flaws or being "broken", or is it more that they are being changed by the nature of the Shards they hold? Sort of like riding a wild horse-- it may not lead you where you want to go, but you aren't broken just for riding it. Or floating down a river. You go where the current takes you, and if you can't get out of the water you might only think of future destinations and routes in terms of what the river offers in the first place. But I suppose I can't say with any confidence that the vessels are particularly intact. The minds of the Vessels are pretty interesting. I especially liked the insight we got into Rashek's mind under even just a few minutes of Preservation's influence (like it not even occurring to him to undo changes he'd made because of the drive to preserve things as they were).
Adamkarma he/him Posted October 11, 2022 Posted October 11, 2022 5 minutes ago, Returned said: Are they flaws or being "broken", or is it more that they are being changed by the nature of the Shards they hold? Sort of like riding a wild horse-- it may not lead you where you want to go, but you aren't broken just for riding it. Or floating down a river. You go where the current takes you, and if you can't get out of the water you might only think of future destinations and routes in terms of what the river offers in the first place. But I suppose I can't say with any confidence that the vessels are particularly intact. The minds of the Vessels are pretty interesting. I especially liked the insight we got into Rashek's mind under even just a few minutes of Preservation's influence (like it not even occurring to him to undo changes he'd made because of the drive to preserve things as they were). Perhaps some Shards have a better ability than others at changing Vessels and Silvers. Odium is the best one, Ruin affected Ati greatly, Sazed still seems like Sazed to me. So perhaps there is levels of control over people, perhaps?
Mr. Misting he/him Posted October 12, 2022 Posted October 12, 2022 On 10/6/2022 at 5:24 PM, SwordNimiForPresident said: It's pretty straight forward, I think that Mercy's vessel is Senna. The way Leras invokes the name is what makes me suspect this. " Oh, Senna ... I'm losing this place. Losing them all ... " -Preservation It's like he is calling out for mercy, or perhaps, Mercy.. When I read this the first time I thought this was more Leras than preservation, Senna might have been his wife or friend from before ascending. It's reasonable to think that Senna might be a shard but I don't think it necessarily is going to be Mercy And also I totally agree that Mercy will be a jerk.
SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword Posted October 13, 2022 Author Posted October 13, 2022 15 hours ago, Mr. Misting said: When I read this the first time I thought this was more Leras than preservation, I’m not sure what you mean by this. At the time, Leras was Preservation, so any reference I made to either of them was meant to signify the same entity. 15 hours ago, Mr. Misting said: And also I totally agree that Mercy will be a jerk. Im not sure if that was meant for me, but I disagree. I think they will be suffering from major anxiety from constantly needing to find excuses for everything, but I don’t think they’ll be a jerk.
Mr. Misting he/him Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 1 hour ago, SwordNimiForPresident said: 16 hours ago, Mr. Misting said: When I read this the first time I thought this was more Leras than preservation, I’m not sure what you mean by this. At the time, Leras was Preservation, so any reference I made to either of them was meant to signify the same entity. I was trying to say how most shards are not a perfect meld of shard and vessel. Like with Rayse who has a difference of opinion with his shard, or Ruin who has just taken over Ati at this point. I feel like their are moment for shards when the vessel is more prominent than the shard. 1 hour ago, SwordNimiForPresident said: 17 hours ago, Mr. Misting said: And also I totally agree that Mercy will be a jerk. Im not sure if that was meant for me, but I disagree. I think they will be suffering from major anxiety from constantly needing to find excuses for everything, but I don’t think they’ll be a jerk. What I meant by this was I don't think Mercy will be merciful in the traditional sense of the term. As we can see with Autonomy she just cares about self autonomy, not autonomy for anyone else. And it feels like a very Brandon thing to have Mercy be maybe not a jerk, but not a benevolent shard.
Leuthie Posted October 13, 2022 Posted October 13, 2022 Mercy could actually lead to the removal of all life. Life is suffering -> It's a mercy to end that suffering -> KILL EVERYTHING. Results in a Shard worse than the Shard of Hate. 1
SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword Posted October 17, 2022 Author Posted October 17, 2022 On 10/13/2022 at 1:17 PM, Leuthie said: Mercy could actually lead to the removal of all life. Life is suffering -> It's a mercy to end that suffering -> KILL EVERYTHING. Results in a Shard worse than the Shard of Hate. That would require a fairly specific interpretation of Mercy. The Shard's intents seem to be more generalized than that.
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