Leshwi getting sent to the Beyond

[FusedOfHonor]

Hello.

I am concerned about those Listener Shanay-Im in RoW. Yes, there is a happy ending. However, in Oathbringer, that Fused named Turash disrespected Odium about Dalinar, and Odium threaten to remove his Investure on Turash, sending him to the beyond. What is stopping Todium from just killing all the Heavenly One Listeners by just removing his Investure, sending them to the Beyond?

Quote

Odium smiled. "You will follow me, Turash, or I will reclaim that which gives you persistent life. I care not for the shape of the tool. Only that it cuts

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by RegalFused

[Hazekiller16 she/her]

I believe that Brandon was asked this at one point and said that while Odium technically could, he sees destroying anyone who breaks their promise to him too much of an Honor thing to do. He does not want to act like Honor, but than again, who knows what will happen with Todium.

Here is the relevant WoB

Striker_EZ

Why didn't Odium take the Investiture away from the Fused that rebelled against him at the end of Rhythm of War? At the end of Oathbringer, Odium tells one Fused that questioned him that he could take "that which gave [the Fused] life." So why didn't he do that to Leshwi and the others?

Brandon Sanderson

This is actually an excellent question. Odium, in his previous incarnation-- we'll see how he acts now-- part of the driving force of Odium is this kind of belief, mistaken or otherwise, that Odium represents all emotion, and strength of emotion, and basically the Passions in lore. Rebelling against him in the way that they did is actually in line with Odium's personal directives. The Vessel may not like it, in fact the power may not like it, but at the same time, there's a part of both of them that acknowledges, this is what they set in motion, and this is an appropriate use of the agency of the agents they chose. And so, unilaterally destroying those who turn against him is actually not an Odium thing. It's more an Honor thing than it would be an Odium thing. It's just not in line with how Odium acts or thinks, even though it's possible and there's threats and... That's not saying Odium wouldn't do it. But acting like Honor is not something Odium would necessarily want to do.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022)

[cometaryorbit]

Another oddity is that Odium claims when discussing terms with Dalinar that he now literally can't prevent the Fused from being reborn... was he lying there?

[Quantus he/him]

46 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

Another oddity is that Odium claims when discussing terms with Dalinar that he now literally can't prevent the Fused from being reborn... was he lying there?

No, he wasn't lying.  He followed that by saying it was the Everstorm that changes everything, and the fused are certainly reborn differently than before.

My theory is he used to do it himself because he was hesitant to Invest in Roshar any more than absolutely necessary (as it would only Bind him to the system more).  The Everstorm and the emergence of Odium's 3rd Pure Tone of Roshar represent him Investing enough that he created a Storm and/or Godspren which can naturally offer the Connection bridge needed by the Fused, rather than it only happening once per Desolation by the same rules that held the Heralds.  

[cometaryorbit]

57 minutes ago, Quantus said:

No, he wasn't lying.  He followed that by saying it was the Everstorm that changes everything, and the fused are certainly reborn differently than before.

Well, sure, but if Odium could just perma kill them by pulling back his Investiture, he *could* stop them from being reborn - he could just order them to stop and then perma kill any which disobeyed.

[Quantus he/him]

26 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

Well, sure, but if Odium could just perma kill them by pulling back his Investiture, he *could* stop them from being reborn - he could just order them to stop and then perma kill any which disobeyed.

Arguably that is the part he was Lying about, in light of @Hazekiller16's WOB.  Odium might not actually Like that they rebel, and he might Threaten to kill them, but to actually follow through and start Offing those that turn against him is not Of Odium enough for him to do it (and Rayse is very far gone with the Intent of his shard). 

Beside, the context was that they were bargaining for Odium to trap all the Fused and Voidspren on Braize, which he objectively cannot do now that the everstorm is there. But Dalinar was not asking for him to Kill all his forces, which would be a Much bigger ask at the bargaining table.  He can still do overly dramatic and damaging things like Kill anyone that's given him sufficient permission (like the fused certainly) or probably even still revoke his Investiture from Roshar and cause major disaster in the process.    

[cometaryorbit]

5 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Arguably that is the part he was Lying about, in light of @Hazekiller16's WOB.  Odium might not actually Like that they rebel, and he might Threaten to kill them, but to Beside, the context was that they were bargaining for Odium to trap all the Fused and Voidspren on Braize, which he objectively cannot do now that the everstorm is there.

But I took that as Odium saying "I could tell the Fused to stay on Braize but I couldn't enforce that". If he can go after individual Fused he could indeed enforce it. I'm not suggesting Dalinar asking Odium to kill the Fused in general - just questioning Odium's claim that he couldn't enforce a "stay off Roshar" order.

Edited July 20, 2022 by cometaryorbit

[Quantus he/him]

24 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

But I took that as Odium saying "I could tell the Fused to stay on Braize but I couldn't enforce that". If he can go after individual Fused he could indeed enforce it. I'm not suggesting Dalinar asking Odium to kill the Fused in general - just questioning Odium's claim that he couldn't enforce a "stay off Roshar" order.

I took it the same way and that's might point exactly.  He cannot stop a rebel Fused from going around him and returning to Roshar with the Everstorm, and it would be counter to his Shardic Intent* to enforce a 100% kill policy for defying his Edict, thus he has no way to Promise Dalinar that no Fused would ever return as part of any Bargain they might make. 

 

*The "acting like Honor is not something Odium would necessarily want to do." part of that WOB makes me think this is tied up that "greater than just the oathpact" stuff we've long wondered about, and that him acting too much like Honor might somehow strengthen the bonds holding him in greater Roshar.

[cometaryorbit]

Ah, ok, that makes sense.