What is an Investiture?

[Chaos he/him]

As per the Alloy of Law Ars Arcanum.

What is an Investiture? I'm looking for a clear, yet general, definition of what that word means. I think it refers to the process of magic, but it also refers to objects, like metalminds. People that have Hemalurgic spikes are considered Investitures. That one is concerning, because that means Investiture could mean a person, too. Are Allomancers Investitures, or is the process of burning a metal an Investiture instead? I'm thinking the reason that people with Hemalurgic spikes are considered Investitures is because you've Invested a spike with power, and anyone with that Invested object is, themselves, an Investiture.

Thoughts? I think we need a definition--and a consensus on one--before we can do more analysis on this concept.

[dj26792 he/him]

could investiture just be an object having and using magic, people included.

Every example of an invested object we have is something that has an amount of a Shards power in it, like shardblades, or awakened objects, or hemalurgic spikes, but feruchemical storages aren't invested (they can be pushed) maybe its because they're batteries, rather than invested and if you could make some kind allomantic robot that burned steel and iron and flew around the place it would be invested too. we know people and things inside them cant be pushed or pulled, maybe thats because of the piece of a shard inside them, they are invested people, and if you have a significantly greater investment you can over come your targets investment and still affect them

this is what I posted before in the other thread were you mentioned this.

Just thought I'd explain it better here cause I've been thinking since I posted that...

A better explanation of ^ that, is the investiture is the connection to the shard through which the power flows. Most people (I would say all but that hasn't been confirmed to my knowledge) have a small innate connection to a Shard, which would explain why they block physical Allomancy, Shard blades and awakened objects also have investitures, the power of honour, or breaths in them respectively which is some kind of open conduit giving them power to do things they normally couldn't (clothes don't jump up and grab swords on their own) Hemalurgic spikes would then work by stealing one persons investment, and giving it to someone else. Feruchemical storages arent invested, they can hold power but there isn't really any sort of shards power flowing through them.

I think that makes sense, but I've been known to be wrong about that sort of thing before... what do people think?

[Chaos he/him]

Unfortunately, it says that with Feruchemy that you "Invest that metal on one day, withdraw the power on another day." So it's clear, in my opinion, that Feruchemical stores are Invested objects.

I was talking to Josh, and we came up with the idea that perhaps there are multiple kinds of Investitures: Physical, Cognitive, and Spiritual kinds. Hemalurgic spikes and Shardblades are pretty clearly Spiritual Investitures, so they can't be Pushed. Vin could just Push on the Lord Ruler's bracers after burning the mists, so I don't see a contradiction there. But a Feruchemical store could be multiple types. The ones we saw in the Mistborn trilogy were mostly Physical, and they could be Pushed upon.

[happyman he/him]

Folks, I still haven't read AoL. I have it on pre-order and will get it very soon, but could you please mark spoilers for a couple more days?

[callumke he/him]

In the final confrontation with the inquisitors just before she goes all god-like on us, Vin pushes and pulls Inquisitor spikes, ostensibly because she is becoming a stronger Allomancer by absorbing the mists. I would say that this suggests that Allomantic strength affects the pushing and pulling of spikes. Do we even have confirmation about any Invested object other than a shard blade?

From reading the essay, I am starting to think that Investiture is Shard-INDEPENDENT. Brandon has said (can't remember where) that each shard could power every type of magic, it would just be harder in some cases. I would say that Investiture is a realmatic term that describes magic is some way, since the Metallic Arts are called Scadrial's three prime methods of Investiture.

The only time the word is used in an applied context, other than in naming the Metallic Arts, is here

Though many through history have maligned [Hemalurgy] as an "evil" art, none of the Investitures are actually evil.

Does the use here refer to the Investitures of Hemalurgy? Or, as I think, does it refer to all magic systems; no magic is inherently evil, magic is just a tool.

Someone really needs to talk to Brandon about this.

Folks, I still haven't read AoL. I have it on pre-order and will get it very soon, but could you please mark spoilers for a couple more days?

The link in the first post will let you read the Ars Arcanum, if you want. However, I would agree it needs to be marked in some way, since it is pre-release info, even if the general theories section isn't allowed spoiler tags as of http://www.17thshard...-to-17th-shard/.

Edited November 3, 2011 by FireArcadia

[CrazyRioter she/her]

Brandon said that Shardblades are "mostly" immune to Pushing and Pulling, also TLR was able to push on metals inside Vin's stomach, so it does seem to be a matter of strength, presumably a Lerasium mistborn, or a lesser one using Duralunium would be able to push on a Shardblade.

Brandon said that Ruin and Preservation could each power all the metallic arts, he didn't say anything about whether other shards might be able to power them, or if R&P could fuel other magic.

And I interpreted that line about none of the Investitures being evil the same way you did.

[darniil he/him]

I haven't had a whole lot of time to ponder and put pieces together, but right now I'm going one step further than dj, thinking that Investiture somehow relates to Adonalsium(-the-power-of-creation) rather than just the Shard.

Rambling train-of-thought follows. Feel free to knock some pins down.

1. I seem to recall reading something that said the different magics were interplanetary.

2. Preservation and Ruin could both fuel all of the Metallic Arts.

3. The Shards are Shards of Adonalsium.

3.1. The Shards were presumably united at one point in the past, suggesting a relation between all of them despite their different intents.

4. 2 + 3.1: Any Shard could potentially fuel any of the magics.

5. Perhaps all of the magics are really accessing the Dor in different ways, but only Sel knew that term.

5.1. Perhaps the Dor is the residual energy of creation, and each Shard also accesses the Dor, in its own way.

6. Investiture could be the way to access the residual power of creation, (the Dor), and the closer one is to it Realmatically, the stronger one is in that magic. That is, the more Investiture a mortal has, the closer in strength s/he comes to the Shard representing that Investiture. (Much like how an Awakener can collect more Breaths, eventually coming to the Fifth Heightening that all Returned are at by default.)

If Investiture means "a way to access the Dor" - whether it be via AonDor, Dakhor, Allomancy, Windrunning, Biochromatic Breath, etc. - Soulbearers with hemalurgic spikes of the other Investitures could become incredibly dangerous beings.

no magic is inherently evil, magic is just a tool.

This is what I'm thinking the author means.

[callumke he/him]

I haven't had a whole lot of time to ponder and put pieces together, but right now I'm going one step further than dj, thinking that Investiture somehow relates to Adonalsium(-the-power-of-creation) rather than just the Shard.

Rambling train-of-thought follows. Feel free to knock some pins down.

1. I seem to recall reading something that said the different magics were interplanetary.

2. Preservation and Ruin could both fuel all of the Metallic Arts.

3. The Shards are Shards of Adonalsium.

3.1. The Shards were presumably united at one point in the past, suggesting a relation between all of them despite their different intents.

4. 2 + 3.1: Any Shard could potentially fuel any of the magics.

5. Perhaps all of the magics are really accessing the Dor in different ways, but only Sel knew that term.

5.1. Perhaps the Dor is the residual energy of creation, and each Shard also accesses the Dor, in its own way.

6. Investiture could be the way to access the residual power of creation, (the Dor), and the closer one is to it Realmatically, the stronger one is in that magic. That is, the more Investiture a mortal has, the closer in strength s/he comes to the Shard representing that Investiture. (Much like how an Awakener can collect more Breaths, eventually coming to the Fifth Heightening that all Returned are at by default.)

If Investiture means "a way to access the Dor" - whether it be via AonDor, Dakhor, Allomancy, Windrunning, Biochromatic Breath, etc. - Soulbearers with hemalurgic spikes of the other Investitures could become incredibly dangerous beings.

This is what I'm thinking the author means.

1. Yes I'm fairly certain Brandon said something along the lines of "it would be hard, but you could get a magic system working off of that magic's planet" Couldn't find it in a cursory look at the Brandonothology.

6. Here's where Feruchemy seems to be a problem. All of the magics you have mentioned there are "end-positive"; that is, they have a net gain of power. Feruchemy does not; it is hard to see how Feruchemists are tapping into a power of creation when they, in fact, do not gain or lose energy.

Other than that I like your theory.

I just had a thought; could the making of fabrials be considered an "end-neutral" or even an "end-negative" method of Investiture?

Edited November 3, 2011 by FireArcadia

[CrazyRioter she/her]

I don't think we know nearly enough about how fabrials work to say that.

[darniil he/him]

Hmm. Hadn't thought about feruchemy. My first thought is that feruchemy doesn't quite apply, as it is a reaction to the interaction of Preservation and Ruin. I've thought this for a while, but I'm starting to shy away from that line of thought.

If it is the result of the interaction of those two Shards - like the northern lights are the result of the interaction between the Earth's magnetosphere and cosmic rays(?) - that might suggest other "half-powers" could be created by the interactions of other pairs of Shards. Or, it could be unique to the interaction between P&R, considering their perfect-opposites nature.

Although, being able to store attributes in a metal isn't something natural. Maybe that's how feruchemy uniquely accesses the Dor - by allowing someone to store attributes in a metal.

I'll need to think about this some more, if it's a viable theory.

[discipleofhoid he/him]

While the word could mean something completely different in the cosmere, I think a good place to start figuring out what investiture is would be looking at the definition in modern english.

From Dictonary.com:

in·ves·ti·ture   [in-ves-ti-cher, -choor] Show IPA

noun

1.

the act or process of investing.

2.

the formal bestowal, confirmation, or presentation of rank, office, or a possessory or prescriptive right, usually involving the giving of insignia or an official title.

3.

the state of being invested, as with a garment, quality, or office.

4.

something that covers or adorns.

5.

Archaic. something that invests.

Several of these definitions use the word invest so I also pulled a definition for that(Same source)

in·vest   [in-vest] Show IPA

verb (used with object)

1.

to put (money) to use, by purchase or expenditure, in something offering potential profitable returns, as interest, income, or appreciation in value.

2.

to use (money), as in accumulating something: to invest large sums in books.

3.

to use, give, or devote (time, talent, etc.), as for a purpose or to achieve something: He invested a lot of time in helping retarded children.

4.

to furnish with power, authority, rank, etc.: The constitution invests the president with the power of veto.

5.

to furnish or endow with a power, right, etc.; vest: Feudalism invested the lords with absolute authority over their vassals.

Comparing these definitions with the way the word is being used I would say that the word is being used in two different ways.

1. When we speak of investiture as a noun as in this example:

In truth, this isn't much different from the form based Investitures one finds on Sel, where specific shape is the key.

The definition would be a combination of definitions 5 of investiture and definition 5 of invest:

Something that furnishes or endows with a power.

2. When we speak of investing as a verb as in this example:

Invest in that metal on one day, withdraw the power on another day.

The definition would be a combination of definitions 1 of investiture and definition 5 of invest:

The act of furnishing or endowing with a power.

Does anyone know of examples where these definitions break? Am I insane for taking this approach? What do you think about these definitions? Let me know.

[darniil he/him]

I think that's a great way to start things off, and it makes a lot of sense.

Assuming that the Realmatic use of the term refers to allowing "mere mortals" to make use of the powers of creation, I think your derived definitions make sense.