What happens if a spren becomes a shard

[Little_Dagger]

I am wondering what would happen if a spren were to become a vessel for a shard. More specifically, what happens if the spren's variety contradicts the Intent of the shard (ex. an honorspren holding Odium or cultivationspren holding Ruin)? Would the conflict destroy the vessel?

[ShrubSeph]

I don't think that's really possible.

(Mistborn spoilers)

Spoiler

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Questioner

 

What happens when a... spren picks up a Shard?

 

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Brandon Sanderson

 

*hesitantly* It's like you're asking if electricity can gain a charge of electricity and get electrified. Does that make sense? I mean-- It's a question that doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

If a Shard were to somehow-- They would just combine into a bigger Shard and get larger-- if that makes sense?

 

Questioner

 

The foundation of that question was I thought that maybe the Stormfather spren was basically doing what Kelsier's spirit did.

 

Brandon Sanderson

 

Oh, um *sighs* Not really... It's really a not really There's some similarities but it's a not really. It's not quite a RAFO though. more of a--

 

Questioner

 

More of a "doesn't quite work that way".

 

Brandon Sanderson

 

--doesn't quite work that way but you're thinking along the right lines?

 

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Edited July 1, 2022 by Kings_way

[Little_Dagger]

1 hour ago, Kings_way said:

I don't think that's really possible.

(Mistborn spoilers)

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Hmmm, I see, thank you. I was under the impression that any sentient being can hold a shard. Perhaps the logic does not apply to spren.

[Dunkum]

7 hours ago, Yuliya said:

Hmmm, I see, thank you. I was under the impression that any sentient being can hold a shard. Perhaps the logic does not apply to spren.

spren are sort of made of the same stuff as the shard in the first place.

I do think there are some potentially interesting implications though.  in particular, spren are little bits of a shard that, crucially, are sentient, and in some cases sapient.  By default a shard is not, though it would develop if left alone for long enough.  point being if  sapient spren were to pick up/merge with a shard how much would their sapience be retained/affect the resulting entity.

[Arsteel]

On 01/07/2022 at 6:03 PM, Yuliya said:

Hmmm, I see, thank you. I was under the impression that any sentient being can hold a shard. Perhaps the logic does not apply to spren.

What if a Spren can become a Vessel but when they do so they cease to be a Spren. Their sentience and the Investiture of which they consist seperates. So like their Investiture just becomes part of the Shard and their remaining sentience becomes the Vessel itself. (This is probably just a stupid idea, just sounded interesting to me)

[Trusk'our]

4 hours ago, Arsteel said:

What if a Spren can become a Vessel but when they do so they cease to be a Spren. Their sentience and the Investiture of which they consist seperates. So like their Investiture just becomes part of the Shard and their remaining sentience becomes the Vessel itself. (This is probably just a stupid idea, just sounded interesting to me)

Probably not as unintelligent as you might think.

Spoilers for Mistborn Secret History.

Spoiler

Preservation was worried about Kelsier adding to Ruin's power if he made it to the Well of Ascension. This would suggest that there is at least some possibility that a Cognitive Shadow or Spren may have their essence added to that of a Shard if they attempt to interact with it and have a sufficient Connection.

 

[Little_Dagger]

17 hours ago, Arsteel said:

What if a Spren can become a Vessel but when they do so they cease to be a Spren. Their sentience and the Investiture of which they consist seperates. So like their Investiture just becomes part of the Shard and their remaining sentience becomes the Vessel itself. (This is just a stupid , just sounded interesting to me)

I like the implications of the idea since it would be a great way to make a successor for a vessel. For example, if a vessel wishes to transfer their power to someone else (not sure why they would, but immortality can be tiring), they can create a spren who aligns perfectly with his/her values and then bestow the Shard to them. It is way easier than looking for a suitable human as Shards can't see into the hearts of men.

[Arsteel]

14 minutes ago, Yuliya said:

I like the implications of the idea since it would be a great way to make a successor for a vessel. For example, if a vessel wishes to transfer their power to someone else (not sure why they would, but immortality can be tiring), they can create a spren who aligns perfectly with his/her values and then bestow the Shard to them. It is way easier than looking for a suitable human as Shards can't see into the hearts of men.

Ingenious! Yes, that would work if a vessel want's their shard's power to continue to be used the same way they were using it, because spren (and other splinters) have generally simpler motives and follow specific morals more strictly that humans. E.g. honourspren all have a very stict code of conduct.

[cometaryorbit]

On 7/2/2022 at 0:08 PM, Arsteel said:

What if a Spren can become a Vessel but when they do so they cease to be a Spren. Their sentience and the Investiture of which they consist seperates. So like their Investiture just becomes part of the Shard and their remaining sentience becomes the Vessel itself. (This is probably just a stupid idea, just sounded interesting to me)

That's indeed a very interesting idea, but I take that WoB to be implying the problem is that there's *not* a separation between between the mind of a spren and its Investiture- the spren *is* Investiture- and so it's not suitable to be a Vessel for a Shard which is another much larger chunk of Investiture- the spren would just kind of merge into the larger mass.

But if there were a way to give the spren that separation... Like Ishars experiments in RoW? I mean we don't know what those would do if successful, but if they made a spren into a sapient Physical Realm being *then* I think the new being could be a Vessel since multiple species with very different biologies can be (Ambition's original Vessel was Sho Del and Cultivation's is a dragon...)

[Arsteel]

13 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

That's indeed a very interesting idea, but I take that WoB to be implying the problem is that there's *not* a separation between between the mind of a spren and its Investiture- the spren *is* Investiture- and so it's not suitable to be a Vessel for a Shard which is another much larger chunk of Investiture- the spren would just kind of merge into the larger mass.

But if there were a way to give the spren that separation... Like Ishars experiments in RoW? I mean we don't know what those would do if successful, but if they made a spren into a sapient Physical Realm being *then* I think the new being could be a Vessel since multiple species with very different biologies can be (Ambition's original Vessel was Sho Del and Cultivation's is a dragon...)

Yes, it's Investiture, and it would merge with the Shard, but it's Investiture with consciousness.

Couldn't the consciousness remain separate, or do you think it would cling to it's old body of Investiture and be absorbed into the Shard with it?

 

 

[Little_Dagger]

22 hours ago, Arsteel said:

Ingenious! Yes, that would work if a vessel want's their shard's power to continue to be used the same way they were using it, because spren (and other splinters) have generally simpler motives and follow specific morals more strictly that . E.g. honourspren all have a very stict code of conduct.

Sounds interesting to me. I would like to see it happen!