What do the Shards' Intents mean to you?

[+ShardlessVessel]

I want to know people's interpretation of the Intents of the various Shards.

Occasionally I see people talk about what each Shard would do, or what the various combinations of Shards would be like, which are more fearsome and which are more interesting.

However, to me the meaning of most Shards is incredibly vague, and I'd like to know how the community interprets the various Shards.

[Adamkarma he/him]

1-Ruin: It wants no civilization, no peace, It doesn't care if the world is bad or unfair, It wants the end of the Cosmere.

2-Preservation: It wants to stop the world, It doesn't care if the world is just or unjust, It wants the Cosmere to be a painting hung on a wall.

3-Cultivation:prosperity.

4-Honor: It wants all people to be good, yet It doesn't see all people equal.

5-Odium:It wants hatred to seep to people, no end to fighting, no end to the people fighting as well.

The other Shards we don't really know about them.

That's my thinking anyway.

[cometaryorbit]

Ruin is basically entropy, the concept that nothing is permanent, everything changes, breaks down into fundamental elements.

Preservation is basically stasis.

Honor is about oaths and bonds, choosing to be bound by something, keeping your word. I don't think it's really about goodness - the fact an oath has been sworn is more important than the content of the oath.

Odium is controversial: I'd say the concept is less broad than Rayse-Odium's claim of Passion, but still broader than just "hate". I think Odium is ultimately the drive for conflict, fury/rage and hate etc. (There's a comment in RoW that the power wants disagreement/conflict even when Rayse wants to be obeyed unquestioningly).

Cultivation: less clear; i think its about fostering growth of all things, not just in a nature sense but also personal/character growth as seen in her interactions with Dalinar

Devotion: possibly love, but given how Seon bonds work I think it might be closer to "loving service" or "loving obedience". Or "caring (for someone/something)" in the active rather than the emotional sense. Not necessarily in a romantic sense: I think Sam in Lord of the Rings is very Devotion.

Dominion: probably much like conquest, service/obedience imposed from above.

 

[Ookla, Harmony’s Hat he/him]

It’s hard to tell what some of the Shards we haven’t really met yet are, like Fortune, but the comments above have pretty much summed up what I have to say about the Shards. Preservation wants everything frozen, nothing changing, Honor wants people to stick to their word, making and not breaking their oaths, etc.

[Sjsharks93]

4 minutes ago, I_am_a_stick said:

It’s hard to tell what some of the Shards we haven’t really met yet are, like Fortune, but the comments above have pretty much summed up what I have to say about the Shards. Preservation wants everything frozen, nothing changing, Honor wants people to stick to their word, making and not breaking their oaths, etc.

Fortune is not a Shard, it is kind of a spiritual property that allows you to see into the future, among other things.

As for the question, it is a really good one. I think I mostly agree with the posts above, but seeing where people differ in opinion is fascinating. Each Vessel will view their Shard's intent differently, and that could change how they act overall

[Ookla, Harmony’s Hat he/him]

Yeah, and some Vessels will completely disregard their Shards Intent. 

Spoiler

Kelsier took Preservations power, and tried to destroy Ruin, but was basically unable to do anything..

And wow, I completely thought fortune was a shard. 

[Sjsharks93]

5 minutes ago, I_am_a_stick said:

Yeah, and some Vessels will completely disregard their Shards Intent. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Kelsier took Preservations power, and tried to destroy Ruin, but was basically unable to do anything..

And wow, I completely thought fortune was a shard. 

The Shards are more Brandon's ideas of what the aspects of the almighty would be broken apart. 

Also they can only ignore the Intent for so long before it begins to warp them. Ati was said to be a gentle man before Ruin warped him.

[Ookla, Harmony’s Hat he/him]

Do we know if these changes are permanent? Say Ati had given up the shard, would he eventually(or maybe instantly) return to normal?

[Sjsharks93]

3 minutes ago, I_am_a_stick said:

Do we know if these changes are permanent? Say Ati had given up the shard, would he eventually(or maybe instantly) return to normal?

Potentially? I think it would depend on how long the Vessel held the Shard. The only "Person" we know to have held a Shard and given it up without going to the great beyond is Kelsier, and he may not have had it long enough to make changes. IMO it would take almost as long to reverse any changes as it took to make them. 

The closest parallel we have is that we know Hoid held a Dawnshard at some point (although no clue how long or how long ago) and he is permanently changed by it (he can't hurt people or even eat meat.)

[cometaryorbit]

I think some changes (Sliver nature/expanded soul) would be permanent but others would not be.

But the only evidence I have for that is Rashek being unable to kill using the Well but able to kill afterwards, and using the Well isn't quite the same as holding the full Shard. Leras was still alive and holding Preservation when Rashek used the Well.

[Lego Mistborn he/him]

19 hours ago, I_am_a_stick said:

Yeah, and some Vessels will completely disregard their Shards Intent. 

  Hide contents

Kelsier took Preservations power, and tried to destroy Ruin, but was basically unable to do anything..

And wow, I completely thought fortune was a shard. 

Maybe you're thinking of Endowment, giving people great fortune vs endowing people with breath. 

With regards to the OP, Endowment from what we know, is basically sharing is caring.

Also, Autonomy is probably like "be a crazy hermit who hides from everyone, it's fun, I promise".

That makes me want to do all the shards in the describe Cosmere things badly thread.

[cometaryorbit]

On 7/14/2022 at 3:30 PM, Ta'veren Kaladin said:

Maybe you're thinking of Endowment, giving people great fortune vs endowing people with breath. 

With regards to the OP, Endowment from what we know, is basically sharing is caring.

Also, Autonomy is probably like "be a crazy hermit who hides from everyone, it's fun, I promise".

I don't think Endowment is quite that purely positive; being a Drab has significant downsides, and people becoming Drabs is a key part of the whole Returned Breath-eating setup. And the Returned are specifically chosen by Endowment, so I don't think it's totally a case of "people have run with this and misused the system" - Endowment has continuing involvement.

I think the concept of Endowment is more "giving at a cost to oneself" than "sharing is caring". Endowment also has created voluntary Splinters of herself (Divine Breath). I think she's definitely one of the more benign and positive Shards, but any of the Shard concepts in isolation can become dangerous.

Kind of like Preservation being all good with the Lord Ruler in Secret History (look, he doesn't change! The same guy in charge for a thousand years! Awesome!) even though he's definitely also one of the more benign Shards we've seen.

Given Autonomy's tendency to meddle, that Intent might be more like favoring separate independent people/groups/nations/worlds/whatever rather than a single monolithic unity. Maybe also why Autonomy's known for Avatars which we don't see on Scadrial or Roshar or Nalthis...

Edited July 20, 2022 by cometaryorbit

[Arsteel]

On 20/07/2022 at 10:05 PM, cometaryorbit said:

 I think she's definitely one of the more benign and positive Shards, but any of the Shard concepts in isolation can become dangerous.

I think this is a very important point. I don't think that any Shard alone can truly be "good" or "fit to rule humans", as any single Shardic Intent will cause harm when taken to extremes without being balanced.

I think the Shards that broke the original agreement and made Dishardic planets made the right decision, as this way a sort of balance could be achieved. For example, Honour on his own would be to strict a ruler, but him and Cultivation help each other improve.

My point is that we sometimes think Shard's Intents themselves are worse or better and they are in the short term, but I think in the end a human society cannot progress with only a single Shard.

And this is why i think Autonomy will be our downfall.