Zahel-Breaths-Stormlight-Radiants

[Master Silver]

So, I was thinking not so much about the fight between between Kaladin and Zahel, but the problem of time. How do you keep main characters alive for other eras in cosmere events without them becoming Shards? When in Elantris they become Elantrins. The Lord Ruler, combined two different magic systems to sorta achieve it. For others they use Breaths. This form of investiture seems like one of the few that can travel no problem. You either need a Divine breath or (and a better way I think) is to amass 2,000 breaths. Getting that number of breaths would be out of reach for every except kings, queens, and high princes. But with Shallan becoming aware of the Cosmere and Hoid and Jasnah being a couple, this leads to the possibility that a few Radiants would end up with agelessness. The heralds after all are ageless, and we aren't sure how this was achieved. It was achieved due to an oath made to Honor most likely. We don't know what the fifth oath does of course. But if you look at what Breath does and compare it to stormlight it is very similar. "The Fifth Heightening grants Agelessness; an Awakener's resistance to aging and disease reaches its maximum strength. These persons are immune to most toxins (including the effects of alcohol) and most physical ailments (such as headaches, diseases, and organ failure). (Coppermind)" For stormlight, "While held, it will automatically heal wounds, exhaustion and even conditions such as poisoning or drunkenness." 

Possible character that end up with both. Zahel, Kaladin, Jasnah, Hoid (already is a Radiant and has Breath), Dalinar, Adolin (it would certainly help him out if he held some Breath). Any thoughts on what the results of holding both would be. I feel like these magic systems go together very easily.

[Returned he/him]

There is a lot of potential overlap. I think that the major difference between acquiring lots of Breaths and the others is that it's passive (differs from the Lord Ruler's method), self-sustaining (differs from the Returned, who need to keep getting more Breaths), and doesn't require you to become a cognitive shadow (differs from the Heralds). Hoid, of course, has his own thing going on and all that we know about his immortality is that it differs from the other approaches we've seen.

I'm not sure how they'd interact, exactly, if they offer the same benefits. Hoid seems to manage balancing them somehow, so at least the Breaths aren't (seemingly) consumed to fuel surgebinding or anything. If abilities can compound, like in Mistborn, then we'll really see some striking effects.

[HSuperLee]

Apparently there's a fairly well known method by which some worldhoppers are able to delay the aging process. We don't know what it is, but its suggested in this WoB:

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Dirigible (paraphrased)

Did Demoux achieve immortality by manipulating his Connection age?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Demoux uses the same method as most of the Seventeenth Shard. That method slows aging by a lot, but doesn't stop it completely.

Arcanum Unbounded Fort Collins signing (Nov. 29, 2016)

Thus it can be assumed that even relatively low-investiture characters could potentially become worldhoppers that last to other eras. As to how compatible the Seventeenth Shard's methods are with other forms of investment, or how it might be improved or replaced by other methods, we simply don't know.

[Master Silver]

How these different magic systems end up interacting is anyone's guess. @Returned good breakdown on the different types of immortality. I was unaware of 17th shard members longevity. I'm also surprised at the attitude 17th Shard members treat Shards. They treat them more like caged lions than deities. That being said there is always a power scaling factor in Cosmere books. We see this especially in Stormlight Archives, although it is in Mistborn and other series. Shard bearers have been completely outclassed by Radiants and Fused at this point. Every time our heroes reach a new level of power, there is a threat that makes it still an uphill struggle. That is why I am thinking, Radiants will need something (especially since their technology is behind other planetary systems. That is what made me think of breaths. They are already on the Rosharan system. Zahel has shown that he can consume stormlight in the place of breaths to stay alive. Does this mean that breaths can be consumed in the place of stormlight? Or could placing a breath into a gemstone allow you to then transport stormlight away from the system. Someone (can't remember who was trying to do this). How would putting breaths into shard plate effect it? But immortality... have to keep our heroes alive and fighting somehow.

[Serack he/him]

Some relevant WoB:
 

Unfortunately I couldn't find the main one I wanted to.  Even before the epilogue of RoW, I knew that (RoW spoilers)

Spoiler

Hoid was hacking his extra breath from Nalthis to store some of his memories similar to  coppermind.  The WoB I remember basically discussed how this helped him overcome potential pitfalls of being immortal by not relying on just his brain to store memories.  

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Iceblade44

So White Sand [then Elantris] is earlier... Then how the heck old is Khriss then? Will we ever get an answer as to why every worldhopper is flippin' immortal?

Brandon Sanderson

There is some time-dilation going on. I'll explain it eventually; we're almost to the point where I can start talking about that. Suffice it to say that there's a mix of both actual slowing of the aging process and relative time going on, depending on the individual. Very few are actually immortal.

Faera

Implying that some are actually immortal?

Brandon Sanderson

Depends on which definition of immortal you mean.

Doesn't age, but can be killed by conventional means. (You've seen some of these in the cosmere, but I'll leave you to discuss who.)

Heals from wounds, but still ages. (Knights Radiant with Stormlight are like this.)

Reborn when killed. (The Heralds.)

Doesn't age and can heal, but dependent upon magic to stay this way, and so have distinct weakness to be exploited. (The Lord Ruler, among others.)

Hive beings who are constantly losing individual members, but maintaining a persistent personality spread across all of them, immortal in that as long as too much of the hive isn't wiped out, the personality can persist. (The Sleepless.)

Bits of sapient magic, eternal and endless, though the personality can be "destroyed" in specific ways. (Seons. Spren. Nightblood. Cognitive Shadows, like a certain character from Scadrial.)

Shards (Really just a supercharged version of the previous category.)

And then, of course, there's Hoid. I'm not going to say which category, if any, he's in.

Some of these blend together--the Heralds, for example, are technically a variety of Cognitive Shadow. I'm not saying each of these categories above are distinct, intended to be the end-all definitions. They're off the cuff groupings I made to explain a point: immortality is a theme of the cosmere works--which, at their core, are experiments on what happens when men are given the power of deity.

Shagomir

Heals from wounds, but still ages.

Would Bloodmaker Ferrings exist in this category as well? If not, what about someone Compounding Gold?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, you are correct.

Shagomir

As a Bloodmaker ages, what keeps them from healing the damage and carrying on as a very old, but very healthy person? Do they come to a point where they can't store enough health to stave off the aches, pains, diseases, and other things that come with old age?

This makes sense for traditional Feruchemy as it is end-neutral, so storing health becomes a zero sum game - eventually, you're going to get sick and you're not going to be able to overcome it with your natural healing ability no matter how much you manipulate it with a goldmind.

...Unless you've got a supply of Identity-less goldminds lying around. Would a Bloodmaker with a sufficient source of Identity-less goldminds (or the ability to compound, thus bypassing the end-neutral part of Feruchemy) eventually just die from being too old?

Brandon Sanderson

Basically, yes. They can heal their body to match their spiritual ideal, but some things (like some genetic diseases, and age-related illnesses) are seen as part of the ideal. Depends on several factors.

Stormlight Three Update #5 (Nov. 29, 2016)

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Very Nice Name 16

You write a lot of immortals in your books. How do you think about people living on large time frames like that and how that affects the way they think and act compared to ordinary people? And also, say, 10,000-year-old compared to a 2000-year-old to a 300-year-old?

Brandon Sanderson

This is actually something I've dedicated a lot of thought to. I think fantasy and science fiction, one of the things it does well is explore human experiences that aren't possible in contemporary or realistic fiction. And so there are a lot of people out there searching for the key to human immortality. And what would it be like? How would we deal with it? These are questions that are interesting to me, and doing a story on a 10,000-year timescale lets me play around with that. I will say that various people you've met are immortal; some are not. Some, it's more time dilation shenanigans than it is extended lifespan.

But regardless, how do I approach this? By gut and instinct, just trying different things out. No human being's experience is identical to another human being's experience, so I figure no immortal's experience will be identical to other immortals' experiences, and so I can have lots of different responses. I can base it partially on the magic system and how they were made immortal. And then that lets me play with different experiences. Like, the things the Heralds are going through, Hoid hasn't gone through. Some of the sort of degradation of what's happening with their souls is unique... not wholly unique, but individual to the experiences they're having. And I play with those differently than I play with someone who's been elevated to holding near-infinite power in one of the Shards and how their experience goes. And then you've got, just, random people who have run across things that have changed their experiences in different ways, and I will approach them in a different way. And I can't really say how exactly I'm gonna do this with everybody. It's just gonna be different for each character in each situation.

That's a very long non-answer. I've thought about it a lot; I don't have answers yet. You'll see them in the books when I write them.

YouTube Livestream 39 (Feb. 1, 2022)

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Questioner (paraphrased)

[Something about whether Elantrians are immortal or long-lived] 

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Elantrians have no physical limitations on their lifespan. The power will sustain them, but it's emotionally and mentally exhausting to be an Elantrian, so as far as immortality goes it's actually harder to be an Elantrian than other forms of immortality that exist in the cosmere.

GollanczFest London (Oct. 17, 2015)

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Questioner (paraphrased)

Regarding a certain dragon mentioned in Stormlight Archive, and dragons in general in the cosmere: is functional immortality a natural part of a dragon's lifespan?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

The way I have written dragons in the cosmere… ALL dragons are naturally functionally immortal. They can be killed, but they don't age.

Supanova 2017 - Sydney (June 16, 2017)