Possible Awakening Reference?

[Kobold King]

I am currently re-reading The Way of Kings, allowing myself to fall back into the story while simultaneously allowing my demented mind to make tenuous connections to everything else in the Cosmere. One small, tiny little detail caught the eye of the more illogical part of my self.

This detail can be found in a Shallan chapter, specifically, when she finds a book of fairy tales about Voidbringers. The first story is apparently about this:

It was the story of a child who wandered away from his home at night and was chased by Voidbringers until he hid in a cavern beside a lake. He whittled a piece of wood into a roughly human shape and sent it floating across the lake, fooling the creatures into attacking and eating it instead.

There is a very strong likelihood that this is a fable. Only this and nothing more. But there are two parts of me that love this passage--the part that makes tenuous connections and the part that loves the Cosmere. For to me, this passage almost sounds like a reference to Awakening.

The boy whittles a piece of wood into human shape, and then sends it over a lake to distract the Voidbringers. Could it be an eyewitness-account of Awakening, distorted by thousands of years worth of retelling? As others have astutely pointed out, the curse "Kelek's breath" is quite prominent on Roshar. Were there men with great stores of Breaths, capable of Awakening, during the Desolations?

As a side-note, the title of the fairytale book is Shadows Remembered, which would be a great title for a Stormlight installment if Brandon Sanderson sticks to the Archive theme.

[Moash]

Chances are you have already read WOR but if not stop reading for there are 1-2 references to the book that contain spoilers. Nice little observation there. I think that you may be correct in that it is a reference but more of an easter egg type reference. I do not think there will be a backstory of Awakening existing on Roshar for that amount of time, as it is not native to Roshar it doesn't seem to fit into the histories of the world as well plus Endowment is on Nalthis not Roshar. We are definitely seeing more connections with Nalthis as Vasher and Nightblood have arrived and possibly other Nalthian characters. I think Awakening being used in Stormlight is a fairly good possibility but like I stated, I think this quote is more of an easter egg and likely to hint at the introduction of Warbreaker characters into the Stormlight Archive. From this quote it doesn't necessarily mean he awakened the piece of wood, it says he sent it floating so that doesn't exactly say he commanded it which is what you do with awakened objects. Overall I don't think Awakening has a deep history on Roshar and I think this quote is more of a subtle easter egg Brandon planted for book 2 (also you may have heard of his original way of kings version that he wasn't releasing to the public and it was because he had Vasher in book 1 originally so that potential easter egg could reference that as well). Good eye in spotting that and last but not least I think Shadows Remembered would make a great title for possibly book 4 or book 6 of Stormlight (After book 3 it will likely be a full scale war and book 6 is Stormlight's return from that break it will go on after part 1 concludes so I think those would be fitting areas to use that title which I really like the sound of).

[Shardlet]

I don't know.  I get the association.  But, it seems to me that the human shape he gave it was for the purpose of it looking like a person to fool the voidbringers.  All it did (according to the excerpt) was float on the water.  There does not seem to be any kind of extraordinary occurrence.  It would be one thing if there was a similar story in Warbreaker.  But, I think you might be reading a bit too much into it.

[Kobold King]

I don't know.  I get the association.  But, it seems to me that the human shape he gave it was for the purpose of it looking like a person to fool the voidbringers.  All it did (according to the excerpt) was float on the water.  There does not seem to be any kind of extraordinary occurrence.  It would be one thing if there was a similar story in Warbreaker.  But, I think you might be reading a bit too much into it.

Oh, undoubtedly I am. But it's a fun thing to think about. Ever since WoR I've been on high-alert, watching for potential references like an Alethi scout watches for chasmfiends. 99% of the theories I've come up with recently will probably never see the light of day. I haven't even posted my theory about Paliah working as a librarian in the Conclave library (though I might)

[Observer]

Roshar seems to have gotten the word 'hound' from someplace, one where the language either matched up or was close enough to stick around. This says to me that they either still remember the days of Yolen, which I find unlikely, or they got moved over from another planet more recently than that. I could have my timetables completely wrong on this, but I can't help but feel they originated from another one of the main Shardworlds, of which Nalthis may be included. Anybody care to shoot this full of timeline-considerate holes?

[Shaggai]

Roshar seems to have gotten the word 'hound' from someplace, one where the language either matched up or was close enough to stick around. This says to me that they either still remember the days of Yolen, which I find unlikely, or they got moved over from another planet more recently than that. I could have my timetables completely wrong on this, but I can't help but feel they originated from another one of the main Shardworlds, of which Nalthis may be included. Anybody care to shoot this full of timeline-considerate holes?

The word "hound" in that context could just as easily be "throg" or "karkakka". You know what an ax is, but what is a throg?

[PorridgeBrick]

Roshar seems to have gotten the word 'hound' from someplace, one where the language either matched up or was close enough to stick around. This says to me that they either still remember the days of Yolen, which I find unlikely, or they got moved over from another planet more recently than that. I could have my timetables completely wrong on this, but I can't help but feel they originated from another one of the main Shardworlds, of which Nalthis may be included. Anybody care to shoot this full of timeline-considerate holes?

The word 'hound' probably comes from their time on the Tranquelline Halls (which I'm willing to bet is Braize, though others may disagree), which is evidently a very Earthlike world, with lions, etc. Then when they moved, they dubbed their new animal best friends hounds, after their doggy pals in the Halls got wiped out by Odium (Shoot. Now I feel really sad over that. Another reason to hate Odium: he kills puppies.)

[Aether]

The word 'hound' probably comes from their time on the Tranquelline Halls (which I'm willing to bet is Braize, though others may disagree), which is evidently a very Earthlike world, with lions, etc. Then when they moved, they dubbed their new animal best friends hounds, after their doggy pals in the Halls got wiped out by Odium (Shoot. Now I feel really sad over that. Another reason to hate Odium: he kills puppies.)

We have an in-world indication that Braize is an old word for Damnation. Ashyn, or some other unknown planet, is a more likely candidate for the Tranquiline Halls.

[PorridgeBrick]

Their myths are of being driven out of the Tranquelline Halls, almost certainly by Odium. There are still people on Ashyn. They weren't driven out. Ashyn has its own magic system, while myths of the Tranquelline Halls bear no mention of that magic. The Rosharan idea of the afterlife is to go back and fight to regain the Tranquelline Halls, implying they were taken over. The enemy of Honor and Cultivation is Odium, and lives on Braize: he is the most likely one to have taken over, and they have been fighting him all along. Besides, isn't it so perfectly Hateful to take over someone else's planet and turn it into Hell itself?

[Aether]

Their myths are of being driven out of the Tranquelline Halls, almost certainly by Odium. There are still people on Ashyn. They weren't driven out. Ashyn has its own magic system, while myths of the Tranquelline Halls bear no mention of that magic. The Rosharan idea of the afterlife is to go back and fight to regain the Tranquelline Halls, implying they were taken over. The enemy of Honor and Cultivation is Odium, and lives on Braize: he is the most likely one to have taken over, and they have been fighting him all along. Besides, isn't it so perfectly Hateful to take over someone else's planet and turn it into Hell itself?

Your reasoning is sound, but the Vorin mythology has the notion that the Tranquiline Halls and Damnation are separate places. Your suggested interpretation is really cool, but I think the knowledge of it would have been likely to have survived in that form were it to have been the case. "We must push the enemy out of Damnation and reform our lost paradise!"

 

I like your idea, but I think our current knowledge of Roshar's history makes it unlikely to be the correct one.

[Shardlet]

Oh, undoubtedly I am. But it's a fun thing to think about. Ever since WoR I've been on high-alert, watching for potential references like an Alethi scout watches for chasmfiends. 99% of the theories I've come up with recently will probably never see the light of day. I haven't even posted my theory about Paliah working as a librarian in the Conclave library (though I might)

 

I think it was at Seattle last September when someone posited that a particular person shown at the Palanaeum was Paliah.  Brandon seemed to indicate, if I recall, that that person was not her but went on to indicate that each of the Heralds was either shown or mentioned in WoK (feel free to check the text of the Q&A for a clearer picture on what Brandon said).  Since she was never mentioned, Paliah must have appeared on screen at some point in WoK.  But I don't know who.  There is a thread a while back that tried to identify appearances of Heralds in WoK.

[PorridgeBrick]

Your reasoning is sound, but the Vorin mythology has the notion that the Tranquiline Halls and Damnation are separate places. Your suggested interpretation is really cool, but I think the knowledge of it would have been likely to have survived in that form were it to have been the case. "We must push the enemy out of Damnation and reform our lost paradise!"

 

I like your idea, but I think our current knowledge of Roshar's history makes it unlikely to be the correct one.

 

Fair enough. I'll still stick to it, though. The coolest theory is always the funnest outcome, after all.

[Shaggai]

Your reasoning is sound, but the Vorin mythology has the notion that the Tranquiline Halls and Damnation are separate places. Your suggested interpretation is really cool, but I think the knowledge of it would have been likely to have survived in that form were it to have been the case. "We must push the enemy out of Damnation and reform our lost paradise!"

 

I like your idea, but I think our current knowledge of Roshar's history makes it unlikely to be the correct one.

I agree that the Tranquiline Halls were probably something other than Braize, but Vorin mythology also says that the Stormfather is Jezrien and that the Heralds lead a battle for the Tranquiline Halls. It can't be taken as a good source of information.

[Aether]

I agree that the Tranquiline Halls were probably something other than Braize, but Vorin mythology also says that the Stormfather is Jezrien and that the Heralds lead a battle for the Tranquiline Halls. It can't be taken as a good source of information.

True, but there are in-world reasons as to why Stormfather is confused with Jezrien, such as the latter being the herald of the Windrunners, who claim the winds.

[Moash]

Their myths are of being driven out of the Tranquelline Halls, almost certainly by Odium. There are still people on Ashyn. They weren't driven out. Ashyn has its own magic system, while myths of the Tranquelline Halls bear no mention of that magic. The Rosharan idea of the afterlife is to go back and fight to regain the Tranquelline Halls, implying they were taken over. The enemy of Honor and Cultivation is Odium, and lives on Braize: he is the most likely one to have taken over, and they have been fighting him all along. Besides, isn't it so perfectly Hateful to take over someone else's planet and turn it into Hell itself?

I like the theory that the Tranquelline Halls have become Damnation but it seems odd for Odium to just drive them out of there, make it Hell and then force them back there. Couldn't he just trap them in the Halls the first time around and then make it into Damnation?

[kaellok]

*ahem* Un-derailing the conversation!

 

It's quite possible that some form of Awakening was used by someone at some time to cause that particular fable.  There's a WoB about another link between Roshar and (I suddenly can't remember the name of the planet Warbreaker is set in, but that one):

 

 

 

Q:  The hair color: is there a link between the hair color in Warbreaker and the hair color in—like with the Alethi always have black, and I can't remember the other country that always have their gold hair coloring?
A:  Yes. You are noticing something very interesting which was done deliberately.

[PorridgeBrick]

I like the theory that the Tranquelline Halls have become Damnation but it seems odd for Odium to just drive them out of there, make it Hell and then force them back there. Couldn't he just trap them in the Halls the first time around and then make it into Damnation?

I don't think he meant to let them go, really. He probably intended to just go to the planet, destroy everything, and move on a la Sel, but they flew to Roshar so he hunkered down and set up camp on the vacated planet. Then the Oathpact comes, and in return he gets the Heralds right where he wants them, tortured on his homeworld for managing to get away from him.

[Horatio Spifflewicket]

*ahem* Un-derailing the conversation!

 

It's quite possible that some form of Awakening was used by someone at some time to cause that particular fable.  There's a WoB about another link between Roshar and (I suddenly can't remember the name of the planet Warbreaker is set in, but that one):

 

Nalthis, I think.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Horatio Spifflewicket

[Shaggai]

True, but there are in-world reasons as to why Stormfather is confused with Jezrien, such as the latter being the herald of the Windrunners, who claim the winds.

My point is that Vorin mythology isn't a very reliable source. Thinking that a vastly changed Tranquiline Halls is two different places is well within the scope of their mistakes.

[Moash]

People are skeptical of Ashyn being the Halls. Could the series on Ashyn not be after Stormlight? Ashyn could be repopulated then.

[Aether]

My point is that Vorin mythology isn't a very reliable source. Thinking that a vastly changed Tranquiline Halls is two different places is well within the scope of their mistakes.

Fair enough. I guess I've just latched on to what I reckon to be the "obvious" answer. Which, knowing Brandon, isn't really safe to do.

[Shaggai]

Fair enough. I guess I've just latched on to what I reckon to be the "obvious" answer. Which, knowing Brandon, isn't really safe to do.

I mean, I agree with you, but we still need more information. From sources other than Vorin Mythology.