OK. Shallan is one KR step ahead of Kaladen per WoB

[WitSpren]

So, does she now get Shardplate from her Spren?     Or does she need One more Truth?

[Awesomeness Summoned]

Thus far, brandon has RAFO'd anything about how shardplate is actually formed or when a radiant earns it so your guess is as good as any.

[Ketek]

I have a huge suspicion Shardplate is nothing like a Shardblade.

[Kheran]

Indeed Ketek, just looking at Syl reaction makes me think that Blades and plates are totally different in their nature.

 

I think that Plates are fabrials, which can be infused with Stormlight and used by the Knight Radiants to fuel their powers, much like a battery. We have yet to see Kaladin wearing one, and maybe he'll make it glow, like the ones we saw in one of Dalinar's visions.

[RShara]

I'm sticking with my theory that Shardplate is an Awakened NonSentient Object!

[Ketek]

I think that Plates are fabrials, which can be infused with Stormlight and used by the Knight Radiants to fuel their powers, much like a battery. We have yet to see Kaladin wearing one, and maybe he'll make it glow, like the ones we saw in one of Dalinar's visions.

 

It could be, yes. Whatever they are, I think they will need to be forged. The Shardplate will be more than just extremely powerful armor. It will be a constant reminder to the Knights Radiant of their responsibilities - that they are the first and last line of defense against the Desolation. That their main job is not to destroy, but to protect. The 'armor' of Roshar, so to speak. 

Edited April 13, 2014 by Ketek

[Kheran]

I'm sticking with my theory that Shardplate is an Awakened NonSentient Object!

You mean like Type III Awakened object from Warbreaker ? And instead of Breath, they used Spren to awaken them, or part of Honor so to speak ? Then what would be the Commands ? Movements, thoughts ? Both ? Interesting theory, I will keep that in mind

This points to Vasher/Zahel being on Roshar because it is a lot easier for him to gain "Breath", or Stormlight in this world, and thus not dying from Investiture exhaustion. Interesting indeed !

 

It could be, yes. Whatever they are, I think they will need to be forged. The Shardplate will be more than just extremely powerful armor. It will be a constant reminder to the Knights Radiant of their responsibilities - that they are the first and last line of defense against the Desolation. That their main job is not to destroy, but to protect. The 'armor' of Roshar, so to speak. 

I agree with that And I'm pretty sure the metal used might be the same as the Blades, something not natural, like iron or steel, since when shattered, the armor behave like molten pieces, as if the bond holding it together just... Vanished.

 

I really really want to read the following book, so many questions answered in WoR, but some many more still pending

 

EDIT : Now I'm pretty sure that Shardplates can store investiture ( Stormlight ), and only a Surgebinder can do that. Also, there are hints of supplemental features which can be accessed when the Plates are infused, like the helm appearing upon willing it or not.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Kheran

[kari-no-sugata]

There's an awful lot we dont know about Shardplate.

 

For example, a lot of people seem to assume that all Radiants get/have plate. It's certainly common but we've not seen any KRs out of the front line - it may be that only combat orientated KRs have it.

 

We've not seen any direct indication that the plate we see today are "dead spren" like Shardblades. If we assume this is the case (that they're not based on spren that are now dead) then it's probably better to think of it as something manufactured, and given how long it lasts then it seems reasonable to assume that a lot of plates we see even in Dalinar's flashbacks are handed down.

 

Personally, I think it is either Soulcast (partially or totally) or almost all the Shardplates were made in a brief period where forging skills were at a very high level and all plates we've seen were handed down from then (when previous owner dies / retires). Even if it was Soulcast, I suspect the process is difficult enough that making new Plate is very hard and most are handed down.

 

 

PS I don't know if this will continue but currently Shallan is not combat orientated at all. Not that it would be useless for her but it just doesn't fit her character (currently). However, I can certainly see her and Navani investigating how to make Plate and trying to make for others.

[Ketek]

There's an awful lot we dont know about Shardplate.

 

We do know it's not crem though

 

But yeah, there's a lot we don't know. And for it to be another spren seems absurd to me. Whatever it is though, I suspect it'll be pretty significant to them, like a lightsaber is to a Jedi/Sith. And yeah, Shallan wearing Shardplate seems off to me. Although... if only Radiants can obtain it, perhaps they can give it to their squires.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Ketek

[Delightful]

What exactly is this WoB?

 

I thought Kal was ahead because he got the whole Shardblade/Light explosion/Windrunner glyph thing going on, which I thought finally  made him a full KR. And I though Shallan wasn't one yet? (according to Pattern halfway through. I haven't finished my re-read to remember the details exactly).

[Wrath]

What exactly is this WoB?

 

I thought Kal was ahead because he got the whole Shardblade/Light explosion/Windrunner glyph thing going on, which I thought finally  made him a full KR. And I though Shallan wasn't one yet? (according to Pattern halfway through. I haven't finished my re-read to remember the details exactly).

 

Shallan and Kaladin were at the same level during the climactic battle (Third Ideal for a Windrunner) at which point they have access to a true Shardblade. Shallan then speaks another truth at the end of the book, which is how Lightweavers progress, so she is now at the Fourth Ideal stage. We don't know what happens when you get to there, though.

 

As for the glyph appearing, well, remember that Shallan has actually been at the Third Ideal stage since childhood and merely repressed the memories of it. That's why she could use a Shardblade in TWoK even if she didn't remember that she could summon it instantly. If a huge glyph ever appeared around her it happened a long time ago.

[Patrick Star]

I was really surprised to see that WoB.

 

Shallan's abilities with stormlight are nowhere near as... violent or intense as Kaladin's.

 

It's possible that Kaladin and Syl just have a stronger bond, but I doubt that's it.  Or at least not all of it.  I think that they do have a stronger bond, but I don't think that it fully explains the differential we're seeing.

 

I still think that there's something extra-special about Kaladin, likely to do with the "Child of Tanavest" or (more hopefully) being the Champion of Honor (he deserves it the most, not Dalinar).

[Delightful]

Shallan and Kaladin were at the same level during the climactic battle (Third Ideal for a Windrunner) at which point they have access to a true Shardblade. Shallan then speaks another truth at the end of the book, which is how Lightweavers progress, so she is now at the Fourth Ideal stage. We don't know what happens when you get to there, though.

 

As for the glyph appearing, well, remember that Shallan has actually been at the Third Ideal stage since childhood and merely repressed the memories of it. That's why she could use a Shardblade in TWoK even if she didn't remember that she could summon it instantly. If a huge glyph ever appeared around her it happened a long time ago.

 

That makes sense. I did see a reference to a WoB saying that different orders get their blades at different stages, though I have no idea if I remember correctly or how to even find that. I'll just have to trust you on this one.

 

[Awesomeness Summoned]

Shallan's abilities with stormlight are nowhere near as... violent or intense as Kaladin's.

Not sure why that would be any indication of how far along in their progression they are. The lightweaver abilities are inherently more subtle while the windrunners are combative so it would make sense they would be more "violent and intense" no matter how strong a radiant the two are.

[Wrath]

That makes sense. I did see a reference to a WoB saying that different orders get their blades at different stages, though I have no idea if I remember correctly or how to even find that. I'll just have to trust you on this one.

Hmm, well, I'm simply comparing her level of progression with Kaladin's. After all he's our best example at the moment, since we know that Windrunners get Plate, Blades and Squires whereas other orders do not necessarily get all of those. Plus we've seen each step with him.

I have a theory about how they get Shardplate but I think I'll save that for another thread.

[Delightful]

After all he's our best example at the moment, since we know that Windrunners get Plate, Blades and Squires whereas other orders do not necessarily get all of those. Plus we've seen each step with him.

I forgot about that.   This would be so much less complicated (but probably also so much less interesting) if they all followed the same pattern. Or if we could at least read all of in-world Words of Radiance to find out more about how they all work.

[Wrath]

I forgot about that.   This would be so much less complicated (but probably also so much less interesting) if they all followed the same pattern. Or if we could at least read all of in-world Words of Radiance to find out more about how they all work.

 

Oh yes, I truly wish I could read that book.

[Moogle]

I still think that there's something extra-special about Kaladin, likely to do with the "Child of Tanavest" or (more hopefully) being the Champion of Honor (he deserves it the most, not Dalinar).

 

This likely refers to all humans having Innate Investiture from Honor rather than Kaladin being extra-special.

 

Not sure why that would be any indication of how far along in their progression they are. The lightweaver abilities are inherently more subtle while the windrunners are combative so it would make sense they would be more "violent and intense" no matter how strong a radiant the two are.

 

Soulcasting can make anything Shallan touches explode into blood, and it's plausible that, going by Teft's legends about Radiants "commanding the sunlight", that she'll be able to create laserbeams by focusing sunlight. I think it's more that Shallan is not a very combat-oriented person. I think if she exerted herself, she'd find she could be just as flashy as Kaladin, if not more.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Moogle

[WitSpren]

Sorry guys, I should have added this to the original post. It was late & I was sloppy/forgetful.

 

 

 

Part of my reasoning - that Shallan should be getting it at this level, or soon, is that Kal, who is now down one level down from Shallan.     During his Shattered Plains fight with the assassin, was getting from Syl, intermittently (at need) the Blade (sometimes spear sometimes real blade) and a form fitting Shield, where ever he needed it. Without him even consciously asking for it.    She just anticipated his need and became that. If she can already be a shield - it is only one more step to become the Whole Body Shield (Shardplate) - that makes the other unnecessary.     The only part that does not does not yet FIT this is that the Shardblades - scream when touched by a proto-KR.     The only thing that I can think of, that would cause this, is that the Shardplate part of the Spren has only been used to PROTECT - which is not harmful to the dead Spren.     But the Shardblades have been used repeatedly to kill (evil type killing)that actually hurts that part of the Spren.

 

 

 

 

This ties in with my theory that in order to awaken a dead Spren. You have to have the matching Shardplate and Shardblade and be of the mental comparably for that type of KR, AND  then develop a connection with it.    Maybe like Adolin's Talks.

Edited April 13, 2014 by WitSpren

[Meg]

Would anybody be so kind and quote that WoB (with source) for me? I really lost track unfortunately.

[kari-no-sugata]

Soulcasting can make anything Shallan touches explode into blood, and it's plausible that, going by Teft's legends about Radiants "commanding the sunlight", that she'll be able to create laserbeams by focusing sunlight. I think it's more that Shallan is not a very combat-oriented person. I think if she exerted herself, she'd find she could be just as flashy as Kaladin, if not more.

 

Yeah, she's not combat-orientated - unless Shallan starts using an Honorblade for extra Surges I expect she'll mostly avoid direct combat for now... though I would love to see her just waltz into the combat training ground and ask the ardents there for combat training... just to see how everyone would react

 

With Shallan, I strongly suspect that Brandon is trying to go for a very different type of character to Vin - I was re-reading The Final Empire last week noticed that he seems to be taking the opposite approach in almost all aspects. At least so far. Can you imagine Shallan using her delicate artistic fingers to punch someone...?

 

But yes, there's certainly possibilities for her. Soulcasting in combat might be of limited use (even if she can do it remotely like Jasnah) due to the heavy Stormlight requirements, particularly if trying to use on Invested enemies I suspect. With Lightweaving, at a basic level it would be interesting if she could go invisible - that could be very effective in combination with her Shadeblade. A simple trick could be to surround enemies in a dome of darkness to disorientate them until troops on her side are in perfect position.

 

There's been some heavy hinting that sound-based weapons have been used in the past on a massive scale. But it might be hard to focus a sound weapon on just your enemies, so she'd need to do such things away from her allies if so. The use of light based weapons would certainly be interesting - and would literally be flashy. I wonder what else is possible.

[kari-no-sugata]

Had fun idea last night, though much more in keeping with Shallan mostly using her powers for "support" in an army rather than direct combat: imagine a pre-battle situation where the odds are terrible and the "grunts" are depressed, so Shallan decides to pep them up by using her Lightweaving abilities to create a huge image+voice projection of Syl (assuming that by this time Shallan has advanced control over sounds and can project/amplify Syl's voice). Basically use giant-sized Syl to motivate the soldiers

 

Imagine it being night and then suddenly a huge beautiful and ethereal woman appears - she would be like a goddess. Would make nice cover image. Ah, such fun possibilities...

[Aleksiel]

Would anybody be so kind and quote that WoB (with source) for me? I really lost track unfortunately.

 

Here:

 

 

 

Q:  How many oaths can a Radiant swear?

A:  There is an upper-limit/threshold to the number of oaths a Radiant may make. By the end of WoR, Shallan is a step higher than Kaladin.

 source

[qqemonte]

I think that Plates are fabrials, which can be infused with Stormlight and used by the Knight Radiants to fuel their powers, much like a battery. We have yet to see Kaladin wearing one, and maybe he'll make it glow, like the ones we saw in one of Dalinar's visions.

Hmmm... I remember from one of Dalinar's vision, he saw a helmet or maybe a faceplate or something like that  disappear and appear from a radiant... something similar to a shardblade appearing and disappearing... so probably a spren still has something to do with it... Maybe with a help of bondsmith, a shardblade can be transformed out of a radiant's spren.. just a theory   

Edited April 14, 2014 by qqemonte

[WitSpren]

Yeah, she's not combat-orientated - unless Shallan starts using an Honorblade for extra Surges I expect she'll mostly avoid direct combat for now... though I would love to see her just waltz into the combat training ground and ask the ardents there for combat training... just to see how everyone would react

 

 

 

Well, actually she has needed combat training quite a few times already.     At least five that I can think of.     Mother, father, the ship, with the deserters, Tyn and 2 chasemfiends.    She managed to survive those situations, and at least one (the deserter confrontation) came out better than if she had had fought her way out. 

 

But the fact remains that if she had been an experienced Shardbearer in all those situations, the results would mostly have been better.

 

Of course she was too young and only used the Shardblade by reflex with the mother & the man, but if she had been able to form the "shield" everywhere her mother attacked, then she would not have had to kill her.   Or if she had pulled the 6' blade earlier & waved it around a little - I'm sure that the man & her mother would have backed off.

 

Her brother showed that her father could quickly control his temper when confronted with a 6' Blade.

 

With the ship, she could have easily saves several lives, by being ready and able to fight.    She could have stabbed the 6' blade through the door & killed at least 3 of the attackers & the others would have most likely fled.

 

With the deserters, the the blade in practiced hands would have been a far better back-up plan to what she did (which was great but could have failed).

 

Mostly, the same with Tyn.      Tyn was whipping her butt, Shallan should understand the basics of defending herself.

 

A longer halberd or bigger Shardblade weapon from the crevice that they were hiding in, could have killed the thing without exposing either Shallan or Kal to being killed. 

 

 

 

Last of all, she can't be sure of always having Stormlight to save herself.