Does Shallan know about the Skybreakers?

[ccstat]

Shallan's viewpoints, especially her flashbacks, show her mind blanking whenever she starts thinking about something she's hiding from herself. This most frequently involves events surrounding her mother's death, specifically her initial bonding with Pattern, his manifestation as a blade, etc. She confronts this specific memory at the end of WoR, but as many have pointed out there are still mysteries in her past that we don't know about.

 

In the flashback chapter 27 "Fabrications to Distract," I found these two quotes:

Nobody in the manor knew where Helaran went when he left.

She lost track of time, staring at a blank sheet of paper.

...

Perhaps he [Father] did not wish her to be able to speak of things she'd seen. She stopped in the hallway, her mind going blank.

The second instance is a clear case of her coping mechanism, but what about the first? Did she stop thinking about Helaran for similar reasons? Does she actually know what he's up to?

 

Taravangian speculates that perhaps Shallan had been trained to surgebind by her brother. I initially discounted that as ridiculous--clearly Shallan was discovering her powers on her own. However, if Helaran was off surgebinding with the Skybreakers and Shallan knew about it, she would likely block it out of her mind because of the connection to Pattern. I think it likely that she knew, and possible that Helaran did in fact help "introduce" Shallan to Pattern in the first place.

 

 

[Moogle]

Taravangian speculates that perhaps Shallan had been trained to surgebind by her brother. I initially discounted that as ridiculous--clearly Shallan was discovering her powers on her own. However, if Helaran was off surgebinding with the Skybreakers and Shallan knew about it, she would likely block it out of her mind because of the connection to Pattern. I think it likely that she knew, and possible that Helaran did in fact help "introduce" Shallan to Pattern in the first place.

 

I think you're on to something here - Shallan spoke the First Ideal, according to Pattern, and a likely source for her to have heard it would have been from Helaran. It would explain a few things if Helaran did speak to Shallan about the Radiants.

 

(Do you have a twitter feed or something where I can get updates whenever you post? You seem to consistently have interesting and insightful posts.)

[Wrath]

I find it more likely that Shallan's mother was a member of the Skybreakers and that's why she tried to kill Shallan when she caught her Surgebinding. Shallan would then be the daughter of a Ghostblood and a Skybreaker.

 

But then I also believe that the Skybreakers as they exist now are a corrupted version of the actual order and consist of Shardbearers rather than actual Surgebinders. In fact I think Nalan is one of the reasons why there are so few Shards in play despite the hundreds of Knights Dalinar saw abandon them.

[Aleksiel]

Probably. Shallan wasn't surprised when Mraize mentioned Helaran and the Skybreakers.

[Patrick Star]

I'm really not sure that Helaran introduced her to Pattern.

 

Skybreakers are looking to kill surgebinders, albeit to prevent desolation.

 

If so, why would a member actively facilitate the formation of a Nahel bond?

[Seloun]

It's actually not clear that Mr. T knows Shallan can surgebind (suspects, probably). In particular, when Szeth talks about a Surgebinder at the Shattered Plains, his first assumption is that it's Jasnah (despite being confirmed dead) even though he knows for certain that Shallan is at the Shattered Plains. This is a weird assumption if Mr. T knows that Shallan can surgebind.

 

In particular the quote talks about Shallan being trained, but it doesn't say what, specifically. The specific quote is an aside from the conversation between Mr. T and Adro where Adro brings up the possibility that Shallan is a surgebinder, but it's not clear the aside is directly related to the specific conversation at hand or is just referencing conversations they've had about Shallan in the past.

[ccstat]

Some good points. Here are the relevant passages:

"Who is it?" he asked softly. "Who is this Surgebinder?"
"Jasnah's ward?" Adrotagia said.
They had been startled when that one arrived on the Shattered Plains. Already they hypothesized that the girl had been trained. If not by Jasnah, then by the girl's brother, before his death.

"I should have guessed that you would turn out to be Shallan Davar," Mraize continued. "I feel a fool for not seeing it earlier. Your family has a long history of involvement in these events."

...

"You don't know who we are. You don't know what we're trying to accomplish. You don't know much of anything at all, Veil. Why did your father join us? Why did your brother seek out the Skybreakers? I have done some research, you see. I have answers for you."

 

As you bring up, there are some things that don't add up about the Skybreakers as presented here. Previous threads have discussed the various secret societies, and the Skybreakers in particular, including Helaran's involvement. The upshot is that it is still ambiguous.

 

To summarize the different opinions on those threads: (Some of you were major contributors in those threads, so I apologize if my concise summary misstates your theories.) 

1. Nale might allow surgebinders if, belonging to his own order, they are trained specifically to not do whatever causes Desolations.
2. The Skybreakers that Mraize refers to and that Helaran sought out may not be the same Skybreakers that have been executing surgebinders under Nale's direction. 
3. Mr T's guess that Helaran trained Shallan could imply either surgebinding or just a knowledge of the Nahel bond process (since Teft helped "train" Kaladin, you clearly don't need to be a KR to help someone down that path).
4. Helaran's knowledge of surgebinding (or ability), could have come independently or from a separate (non-Skybreaker) source.

Some of those possibilities seem more likely to me than others, but I won't argue specifically for any scenario here. (Maybe later.) What is clear is that Helaran was actively involved with a group antagonistic to Amaram's Sons of Honor, and that group provided him with Plate and Blade. 

 

Whatever Helaran was up to, I think that Shallan knew about it, and since it was connected in her mind with her mother's death, she blocked it out. Hopefully she will start letting herself remember some of these important things before she gets too deep into trouble. (Okay, maybe it's too late for that, but still. Enough with the repression and denial.)

 

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not trying to discourage discussion of the Skybreakers etc. in this thread. I just want to inform our conversation with what people have already said so we don't spend too much time repeating the same thoughts. 

 

EDIT2: I just read the flashback where Shallan meets Wit, which takes place a year and a half after the one quoted in the OP. It is clear that at the time of her conversation with Wit she does not know where Helaran is or what he's up to. So if she did know about his activities (which I still think there is a good case for), then that was a temporary situation. 

Edited April 13, 2014 by ccstat

[Lightflame]

When Shallan first meets Jasnah, Jasnah quizzes her on which books she's read. Shallan mentions Nohadon as one of the authors she's read the works of, meaning she's read "The Way of Kings". I think it would be possible that she learned the First Ideal from said book.

[Moogle]

When Shallan first meets Jasnah, Jasnah quizzes her on which books she's read. Shallan mentions Nohadon as one of the authors she's read the works of, meaning she's read "The Way of Kings". I think it would be possible that she learned the First Ideal from said book.

 

This is a very good point, but would she have done it when she was like 11-12? I wasn't capable of reading any dense philosophical works at that age myself.

[Lightflame]

Yeah, but Shallan is also a prodigy and reads a ton, so I imagine she could manage it.