Investigation: Investiture as a Spiritual Radiation

[Tempus]

I've been unsatisfied with the definitions and explanations of investiture floating around here, and it's been causing me headaches, so I decided to gather up all the info I could, and make a theory. It's still under investigation, so I'd love it if people could contribute or poke holes in it.

 

 

Hypothesis:

 

Investiture is a form of Spiritual Radiation that follows the laws of Wave/Particle duality.

 

 

Qualities of Investiture:

 

• It has a pulse length

• It has a frequency

• It can infuse or suffuse an object

• It can be removed from an object

• Objects have a maximum capacity or tolerance for investiture

• It can be transmitted

• It forms systems

• It is conserved within a given system

• It leaves behind traces when an object has previously been infused with high concentrations

• It is entropic

• It is subdivisible

• It can have a pressure, or more precisely, a directional force

• It is constantly emitted from an invested object

• One frequency of investiture interferes with another

 

 

Given these qualities of investiture, we can notice a few things. Investiture is either a wave, or a wave/particle duality with very low mass. Investiture exists primarily in the spiritual realm (it affects emotions). Investiture behaves in many ways similar to a thermodynamic system, and obeys many laws similar to thermodynamic laws. Investiture behaves similar to radiant energy, such as light or electromagnetic radiation, and in other ways it is more similar to particle radiation.

 

 

Conclusion:

 

The conclusion I draw from listing these characteristics is as follows: Investiture is a form of radiation native to the Spiritual Realm of Realmatic theory. Shards emit a high quantity of this radiation, over a spectrum of frequencies determined by the intent of a shard. Any spiritual entity may become infused over time with this radiation, and invested spiritual entities also emit small quantities of radiation themselves (similar to being radioactive). Infusing a spiritual object with high amounts of radiant investiture will likewise mutate that spiritual object.

 

A focus allows an individual with access to this radiation to convert raw radiant investiture to either a specific frequency of investiture, or to convert the energy of investiture to a physical force. An example of the former is feruchemy. An example of the latter would be Allomancy. The nature of the effect is determined by the frequency of the investiture, and the form of the effect is determined by the intent of the user.

 

 

 

A selection of sources: (with all the organization of a dead duck)

He began to grasp the theory of AonDor. The Dor was as Galladon had described it: a powerful reservoir just beyond the normal senses. Its only desire was to escape. The books explained that the Dor existed in a place that was full of pressure, and so the energy pushed its way through any viable exit, moving from an area of high concentration to one of low.

However, because of the Dor's nature, it could enter the physical world only through gates of the proper size and shape. Elantrians could create rifts with their drawings, providing a means for the Dor to escape. and those drawings would determine what form the energy took when it appeared. However, if even one line was of the wrong proportion, the Dor would be unable to enter—like a square trying to force its way through a round hole. Some theorists described the process using unfamiliar words like "frequency" and "pulse length." Raoden was only beginning to understand how much scientific genius was held in the library's musty pages.

 

- Elantris, Ch.28

 

BRONZE: Seeker Mistings burn brass to “hear” pulses given off by other Allomancers who are burning metals. Different metals produce different pulses. Sentry Ferrings can store wakefulness in a bronze metalmind, making themselves drowsy while actively storing. They can tap the metalmind at a later time to reduce drowsiness or to heighten their awareness.

 

-- Ars Arcanum, Alloy of Law

 

“Eventually, you’ll be able to sense two different pulse lengths. Internal metals, like bronze and copper, give off longer pulses than external metals, like iron and steel."

 

-Marsh, describing Allomantic pulses, Mistborn

 

Ashe pulsed slightly in annoyance.

 

- Elantris, describing the method by which Seons communicate

 

 

 I CAN FEEL OUR GOAL NOW, CAN SENSE IT, THOUGH THE OTHERS CANNOT. IT...PULSES, IN MY MIND, FAR OFF IN THE MOUNTAINS.

 

- RASHEK, DESCRIBING THE WELL, MISTBORN

 

SHE AGONIZED, WATCHING THE BLOODSEALER’S MARK AS IT PULSED. FINALLY, AFTER A FEW TORMENTING MINUTES, THE SEAL ON THE DOOR FLASHED ONE LAST TIME . . . THEN FADED.

 

-- SHAI, DESCRIBING THE BLOODSEAL, THE EMPEROR'S SOUL

 

 

 THE SPANREEDS LOOKED LIKE ORDINARY WRITING REEDS, EXCEPT THAT EACH HAD A SMALL INFUSED RUBY AFFIXED. THE ONE ON THE FAR RIGHT PULSED SLOWLY.

 

-- DESCRIPTION OF A SPANREED FABRIAL, WAY OF KINGS

 

 

THE GEMSTONE IN THE FABRIAL PULSED MORE BRIGHTLY AS THE NEWCOMERS GOT CLOSER.

 

 

-- DESCRIPTION OF A HELIODOR FABRIAL, WAY OF KINGS

 

HE LET THE THRILL PULSE THROUGH HIM.

 

-- DESCRIPTION OF THE THRILL, WAY OF KINGS

 

 

SOMETHING BLOSSOMED WITHIN KALADIN. LIKE A DEEP BREATH DRAWN IN, LIKE A BURNING LIQUOR INJECTED DIRECTLY INTO HIS BLOOD. A POWERFUL WAVE PULSED THROUGH HIS BODY. ENERGY, STRENGTH, AWARENESS.

 

-- KALADIN DRAWING STORMLIGHT, WAY OF KINGS

 

Suddenly, Lemex shuddered, and a wave of color washed across the bed, over Vivenna, and pulsed along the floor before fading. Despite herself, Vivenna stepped back in shock. Another pulse came. It wasn't color itself. It was a wave of enhanced color, a ripple that made the hues in the room stand out more as it passed. The floor, the sheets, her own dress, it all flared to vibrant vividness for a second, then faded back to the original hues.

 

 

-Regarding Breath as Lemex Died, Warbreaker

 

 

He strained for that sphere, breathing in. The Light seemed to resist, then gloriously streamed out into his fingertips. The storm pulsed in his veins.

 

-- Regarding holding stormlight, Words of Radiance

 

BRANDON, CHICAGO SIGNING

Q [44:26]: WILL NIGHTBLOOD DRAIN STORMLIGHT?

A: NIGHTBLOOD WILL DRAIN ANY INVESTITURE, SO YES.

 

INTERVIEW: Sep 22nd, 2012

OREM SIGNING REPORT - ZAS (VERBATIM)

 

ZAS

SO YOU TALK ABOUT THE RESIDUE A SHARD LEAVES ON A SLIVER. SO WHAT DOES THAT RESIDUE HAVE? LIKE WHAT DOES IT DO? IF ANYTHING?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

WELL, ONE THING IT CAN DO IS THAT PEOPLE CAPABLE OF NOTICING INVESTITURE, WOULD KNOW THERE IS A TRACE OF INVESTITURE FROM THAT EVENT.

 

 

INTERVIEW: Sep, 2012

COSMERE Q&A - 17TH SHARD (VERBATIM)

 

CHAOS

IS THERE A COSMERE-SPECIFIC TERM YOU USE TO DESCRIBE, SAY, A SHARD'S POWER INSIDE SOMEONE? FOR EXAMPLE, PEOPLE ON SCADRIAL HAD LITTLE BITS OF PRESERVATION IN THEM THAT MADE THEM SENTIENT (AND, WITH ENOUGH PRESERVATION, ALLOMANCY). THIS OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T MAKE THESE PEOPLE SLIVERS OR SPLINTERS, SO I WAS JUST WONDERING IF YOU HAD A WORD FOR IT.

 

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

IN MY OWN TERMS, I REFER TO ALL OF THIS AS TYPES OF INVESTITURE. THE DEGREE, AND EFFECTS, CAN BE VERY DIFFERENT - BUT THOSE PEOPLE ARE INVESTED. I TERM THIS INNATE INVESTITURE, AND IT IS SIMILAR TO WHAT HAPPENS WITH PEOPLE ON NALTHIS. THAT IS ALSO INNATE.

 

 

 

INTERVIEW: Apr 15th, 2013

Reddit AMA 2013 (Verbatim)

HEROWANNABE

My friend and I asked him something like this at a book signing, but for some reason it never seemed to make it onto 17th Shard. We asked if a shardblade or Nightblood could be used as a hemalurgic spike (i.e.: two different investitures of magic). Brandon said that yes, in theory you could do that, but objects have a limit to how much investiture they can hold, and that it could be argued that things like Nightblood and Shardblades are already "full."

 

 

 

INTERVIEW: Sep 4th, 2012

DragonCon 2012 - Nalesean's Report (Paraphrased)

BRANDON SANDERSON (PARAPHRASED)

There were a few concepts that he outlined in answering this question.

 

1.) The ability to push/pull an invested object is predicated to the amount/power of the investiture

 

2.) Further, invested objects also gain resistance to pulling/pushing based on proximity to soul possibly via the soul. An example given is that A hemalurgic spike touches the blood of the person, and from there is now part of both the Spiritual Realm and the Physical Realm. This provides what Brandon termed a kind of "soul interference," based on its proximity to the soul.

 

INTERVIEW: Nov 6th, 2012

Weller Book Works Signing - Josh & Mi'ch (Verbatim)

QUESTION

Can Odium pick up pieces of a Shard without changing the nature of his Shard?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Any investiture, over time, will slowly change one’s personality, no matter how small that investiture.

 

INTERVIEW: Aug 31st, 2011

Reddit AMA 2011 (Verbatim)

ERIC LAKE ()

Allomancy provides many very dramatic effects, which some have noted is not very much like Preservation. Could you walk me through how Allomancy is of Preservation, though it does dramatic, dynamic things?

BRANDON SANDERSON

One of the 'basics' of the magic in all of the worlds is that the energy of Shards can fuel all kinds of interactions, not just interactions based on their personality/role. I did this because otherwise, the Magics would all be extremely limited.

 

The 'role' of the Shard has to do with the WAY the magic is obtained, not what it can do. So, in Preservation's case, the magic is a gift—allowing a person to preserve their own strength, and rely upon the strength granted by the magic. While Hemalurgy has a huge cost, ending in net entropy.

 

INTERVIEW: Sep 24th, 2013

Interview with Brandon Sanderson - Chris King (Miyabi) (Verbatim)

CHRIS KING (MIYABI)

And the last one we have here is: Is it possible to use a soulstamp to give shardplate life or at least achieve a robotic status?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Wow, it is really, really hard to invest things that have already been invested. Let's just say that, it is really hard to do that. Part of the reason why it is difficult for instance to Push or Pull on something that is inside of somebody because the investiture is interfering and you would have that similar problem doing anything to shardplate with any of the magics.

 

INTERVIEW: Oct 5th, 2013

Steelheart Signing Report - Argent (Paraphrased)

QUESTION

Could a Seeker who was properly trained and experienced detect AonDor or Awakening? Similarly, does a Coppercloud block an Awakener's life sense?

BRANDON SANDERSON

A Seeker could sense somebody else using magic not native Scadrial. RAFO on the Coppercloud blocking similar magic.

 

 

Enhancing this and making it part of the magic was a way to get the visceral feel I was looking for. It also plays off the idea that by giving up your Breath, you give up part of your life. The fact that Drabs can’t be noticed by life sense allows me to show that they have taken one more step toward being objects themselves.

 

BioChroma. It turns objects into living things, but turns living things into objects as well.

 

http://brandonsanderson.com/annotation-Warbreaker-Chapter-Fifteen-Part-2/

 

 

I say a selection because it is SO DARNED HARD to gather information for these things.

 

Anyway, please discuss, refute, rephrase, or offer additions to the above definition of investiture. I have not spent the time yet to completely categorize and organize my thoughts on this into a formal theory, and would like to refine it before I do.

[Awesomeness Summoned]

I like the wave particle aspect of the theory but you might want to rework the idea that it is native to the Spiritual Realm.

 

Q: What is the realmatic composition of investiture?

A: Investure is intended to be the building blocks of the cosmere so I would say for the most part it transcends the different realms. Probably more of the spiritual if anything but more accurately it transcends them.

 

Brandon agrees is has a stronger spiritual aspect than any of the other realms but I wouldn't go so far as to say thats where it comes from.

[Tempus]

That's a good point, and I did not find that particular quote in my searching. Do you happen to know which interview it came from?

[Awesomeness Summoned]

It was the Houston signing on March 11th

Edited March 28, 2014 by Awesomeness Summoned

[Tempus]

Thank ye kindly.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

Like this idea! Upvote for cleverness sir!

 

It really fits with Brandon's scientific approach to his world and magic building. With investiture taking the place of things in our physical world like Muons and Quarks (sort of) 

 

Condsider me a convert to this theory (until and equally compelling counter theory causes me to tear my remaining hair out in confusion and anguish over which to choose)!

[Argent]

This is very similar to how I've been thinking about Shards and Investiture, although I never put it in words quite this way. I've been thinking about Shards as "entities that pulse wavelengths of power." This - sans the dead duck - is a good way of explaining it.

 

Also, I can never make my theories so succinct...

[Nicrosil]

This... this makes a lot of sense. So, Nicrosil feruchemy would be like altering the waveform? Like turning infrared light to blue light? Sorry if any resident scientists are beating their head against a table, my knowledge of physics is limited.

[Tempus]

Also, I can never make my theories so succinct...

 

I wrote the whole theory out, with thermodynamic laws and wave/particle duality and radiation rates and estimates on frequency scopes... but it doesn't all quite fit just yet, so I summarized the stuff I was certain of an put it above for people to draw their own inferences. Summarizing is cool.

 

 

 

This... this makes a lot of sense. So, Nicrosil feruchemy would be like altering the waveform? Like turning infrared light to blue light? Sorry if any resident scientists are beating their head against a table, my knowledge of physics is limited.

 

Nicrosil is a unique challenge. A feruchemist would be invested, that is to say suffused with radiation of a certain spectrum. One aspect I didn't go into in my theory is that the radiation is controllable by cognitive intent. A feruchemist's intent would take a given frequency of radiation, and transfer it into the metal focus as storage. Any given metal focus could only store the frequencies available to it. The frequencies correspond to physical traits, so emitting that radiation weakens that trait, and absorbing that radiation strengthens it. 

 

Nicrosil then, either converts frequencies to other frequencies, or stores a wideband frequency that encompasses all other frequencies. I'm not sure which, and I don't have sufficient information on Nicrosil feruchemy to decide at the moment. Either way, it becomes a 'unique' metal, since it's all meta. If investiture is a radiation that covers a band of frequencies, there should not be a frequency that refers to the band of frequencies. Thus, Nicrosil must act differently than other metals, and I'm not sure there's space in the continuum for something inconsistent.

 

Then again, its correspondent Aluminium is also a weird metal, cosmere-wise.

[Tempus]

Incidentally, the reason I have investiture as spiritual radiation that is a particle/wave duality is that high masses of radiation form into deposits in both the physical world (like Atium) and the cognitive world (spontaneous sentience of splinters). We don't know if there is any similar change from a wave to a particle in the spiritual realm, so I presumed (perhaps incorrectly) that the spiritual realm was where the radiation was emitting from, like a shardic sun.

[weebojello]

Similar to radiation, are you suggesting there is a decay as well?

The relative power level of every shard seems to be relatively constant, minus the investiture made into the world they inhabit.

So, Odium really has two ways to be defeated - 1)Hope worlds and lose sufficient power and 2) Wait. A really, really long time.

Mostly I say this, as I don't know that there's anything sufficiently explaining how or even if a shard can "regenerate" it's power level. Sentience, evidently given a long period of time, yes, but raw power? Has there been any discussion of that by Brandon?

[Odium's_Shard]

On the Nicrosil question, I would like to put across my idea of how to link this theory with its Feruchemy (and corresponding discussion of Allomantic/Feruchmical Aluminium).

 

So, for the Feruchemical property of the storage of Investiture. I don't see this as a real issue to this theory, mostly that the wavelength or at least wave-function (and thus its properties when in reality transferred to an equivalent Physical/particle event), is altered by the body it enters or leaves, much like diffraction when a wave passes through a gap or over a ridge.

 

This entry point is what I would call the Spiritual key of an individual/system/object, determined by its sDNA or Spiritual properties. This should solve the problem of what is stored in Nicrosil, I believe it is pure potential (Investiture) stored in a vessel in a certain form (the wave-function it exhibits in Nicrosil), and then can be used and transferred to other wave-functions by different Spiritual gateways (metals, people, spren, etc.). The Investiture is shaped.

 

Lastly, a quick point on Aluminium and why it can stop Allomancy and also destroy metal reserves. I believe metal reserves to be non-Physical (not actually in the gut) but tied to your Spiritual sDNA (with some Cognitive to be able to access them) and they are stored in certain wave functions (which differentiates their affects). Each metal, on digestion, provides a certain key that transmutes some Investiture from the Power of Creation into a wave-function with an equivalent effect.

 

In my opinion, whilst their might be 'pressure', similar to AonDor, pushing on the other metals (waiting to be allowed through the sDNA gateway), Aluminium (due to its structure or Spiritual gateway properties?) has the inverse, and takes in Investiture, such as that travelling towards you (if worn) or your reserves (if burned). If this is true (this is pure conjecture) this could have some interesting effects on other planets.

 

(My backup theory is that the wave-function of Aluminium, or its actually effect, is that is washes away the Spiritual keys of surrounding objects, making all Investiture passing through them uniform or unshaped, causing metals to burn without effect and Invested radiation aimed at you be made generic and unharmful/without effect, though this theory is much more tenuous).

 

Odium's_Shard

Edited March 28, 2014 by Odium's_Shard

[Tempus]

Similar to radiation, are you suggesting there is a decay as well? The relative power level of every shard seems to be relatively constant, minus the investiture made into the world they inhabit. So, Odium really has two ways to be defeated - 1)Hope worlds and lose sufficient power and 2) Wait. A really, really long time. Mostly I say this, as I don't know that there's anything sufficiently explaining how or even if a shard can "regenerate" it's power level. Sentience, evidently given a long period of time, yes, but raw power? Has there been any discussion of that by Brandon?

 

The theory is not so much about particle decay (colloquial radiation), but electromagnetic radiation with a thermodynamic system. Don't think 'Uranium at a power plant' think 'The Sun, giving off heat'. As for shardic power and sentience, we know that investiture is in a closed system (it's in my unorganized quotes there somewhere), we know that sentience is spontaneously generated upon a sufficient amount of investiture (splinters), and we know that enough investiture gathered in one place will stack (Breath).

 

Remember, this is not a molecule shedding ionized particles and slowly breaking apart, but wave/particle dualities within a closed system.

 

Concrete Example: The Investiture of Ruin, as energy, concentrates in the pits of Hathsin until it gains enough mass to transform into a particle (Atium). When the energy is dispersed, the system will eventually return to equalizing and Atium will once again gather.

 

 

 

So, for the Feruchemical property of the storage of Investiture. I don't see this as a real issue to this theory, mostly that the wavelength or at least wave-function (and thus its properties when in reality transferred to an equivalent Physical/particle event), is altered by the body it enters or leaves, much like diffraction when a wave passes through a gap or over a ridge.

 

This entry point is what I would call the Spiritual key of an individual/system/object, determined by its sDNA or Spiritual properties. This should solve the problem of what is stored in Nicrosil, I believe it is pure potential (Investiture) stored in a vessel in a certain form (the wave-function it exhibits in Nicrosil), and then can be used and transferred to other wave-functions by different Spiritual gateways (metals, people, spren, etc.). The Investiture is shaped.

 

Lastly, a quick point on Aluminium and why it can stop Allomancy and also destroy metal reserves. I believe metal reserves to be non-Physical (not actually in the gut) but tied to your Spiritual sDNA (with some Cognitive to be able to access them) and they are stored in certain wave functions (which differentiates their affects). Each metal, on digestion, provides a certain key that transmutes some Investiture from the Power of Creation into a wave-function with an equivalent effect.

 

In my opinion, whilst their might be 'pressure', similar to AonDor, pushing on the other metals (waiting to be allowed through the sDNA gateway), Aluminium (due to its structure or Spiritual gateway properties?) has the inverse, and takes in Investiture, such as that travelling towards you (if worn) or your reserves (if burned). If this is true (this is pure conjecture) this could have some interesting effects on other planets.

 

(My backup theory is that the wave-function of Aluminium, or its actually effect, is that is washes away the Spiritual keys of surrounding objects, making all Investiture passing through them uniform or unshaped, causing metals to burn without effect and Invested radiation aimed at you be made generic and unharmful/without effect, though this theory is much more tenuous).

These are some plausible conjectures. I haven't yet really looked into Aluminum, it's about #8 on my Theory ToDo list (but let's be honest, I'm gonna get really distracted). I'll keep some of these concepts in mind when I do get to tackling it.

[Odium's_Shard]

I'd be happy to help you with anything I can (both of your theories that I have read so far have been interesting to me as you might have seen from my posts on them), though in general my thoughts are largely incoherent with rare flecks of inspiration.

 

Bear in mind that most of my ideas are based on my personalised view of the Cosmere and how the Realms interact, I'm sure I have written it down somewhere but I'm not sure if my ideas have ever been collated (they're unnecessarily and indulgently complex, and this collation is going to remain on the To Do forever). Your theory fits perfectly fine within my own, which I why I have no trouble adopting it (I like it because I like Physics and I think its nice to explain things with unneeded detail). Before I think I just imagined Investiture like a luminescent breath, some flowing mist, that when it enters a person makes them glow (a la Stormlight).

 

Odium's_Shard

[Tempus]

Well, I should be posting more of these in the next couple weeks. I started out by reading as many theories as I could, and then I wanted to collate them on the wiki because I think this sort of stuff is genius. But there has been some foot dragging in this regard, and everything is hard to find, so I decided I'd go about reviewing all possible information I could get about some basic subjects and try to write some coherent theories based on what I found.

 

Knowing that Brandon is a logical guy and gets Peter to work out whatever he can't, my basic premise is to reduce cosmere knowledge to concepts down to about something just dipping it's toes into quantum mechanics, which is about as much as we've seen hints for. So things like Wave/Particle Duality, electromagnetism, and entanglement are on the table, things like strong and weak interaction are a maybe, and things like quantum chromodynamics are a no. In complex, to explain cosmere magic with the least amount of physics concepts necessary at the lowest level of understanding necessary to describe a thing. In simple, to describe his magic system using science without having to read past the first couple paragraphs on wikipedia. That's about where I've placed his 'handwavium threshold'. Pure guess.

 

But in general I just want to describe things like Investiture, Realmatics, and other big concepts, and link all those descriptions together to turn all this theorizing into a model.

[Odium's_Shard]

My personal opinion is that Brandon's systems are based on real life interactions with only Investiture and the Realms as the defining features (which allows for some really cool systems), so as to avoid contradictions as much as possible (either that or he has everything pinned down to the exact tenets, after a tremendous amount of work with consistency, that we're merely guessing at, that he may or may not ever choose to share with us in full).

 

But I love Brandon's magics because they begin to be able to be refined to a scientific discipline. Like the commercial uses of Allomancy in Alloy of Law, the people begin to lose their mysticism and develop good scientific methodical approaches, such as those prescribed by the writer of the Ars Arcanum. And I think this is the best thing about this magic system, its almost as wonderful as real science.

 

/offtopicrambling

 

EDIT: To avoid double posting, I just found this WoB about aluminium, and burning aluminium, that might give some hints: 

 

BRANDON SANDERSON:

Ha, that IS a little silly of a method. However, on the extreme end of aluminum, I have in the notes the possibility of cleansing the spirit of unwanted effects of other investitures. You'd get really good at this, and maybe even be able to cleanse the body of other impurities.

 

Seems like it can absorb all Investitures, and as well as wiping the body of the Invested metal reserves, it can wash away other Investitures. Perhaps burning Aluminium could destroy a Nahel bond, or remove Awakening links, or even cast out Breath (this has exceptionally scary consequences considering that Chromium does the same thing, but to OTHERS)?
 

Odium's_Shard

Edited March 29, 2014 by Odium's_Shard

[Nicrosil]

So Feruchemical nicrosil is like storing "pure" Investure, which can then be shaped into other kinds. Entirely useless on its own, but, say, give it to an Elantrin, and they could access the Dor without having to be near Elantris itself. Allomantic Aluminum, on the other hand, shuts off the "gate" you have to the Spiritual realm, like closing a valve in a hydrolics system.

As to handle Brandon's quote about Investure transcending all the Realms, what if we think about it this way. You have three glass spheres filled with water, connected to each other by tubes also filled with water. You start pumping a dye into one of the glass spheres. The color will diffuse out to the other parts of the system, of course, but from the perspective of someone inside one of the glass spheres, the color is radiating from one of the spheres.

Edited March 30, 2014 by Nicrosil

[Odium's_Shard]

It was my opinion (because of my believe of how humans are split between the Realms) that Feruchemical nicrosil could store Investiture (not in pure form, but in a kind of Nicrosil-bent way, it exists in a form that allows it to be contained by the Nicrosil), and then when this is released, depending on whom or what or probably where it was released it would take different (but ultimately similar) forms, such as Stormlight or maybe even metal reserves or some access to the Dor.

 

I had the feeling that the kind of power Aluminium-shaped Investiture provides is similar to a 'cleanse', which isn't very useful when you have metal reserves in your Spiritual 'hold', but might be useful if you had, say, your gravity flipped by Stormlight. It wipes whatever Investitures (be they metal reserves, or maybe Stormlight) are affiliated with your person (perhaps including Breath, which is just annoying) away. I presume Duralumin could provide its spike in power to other forms of Investiture too.

 

Odium's_Shard

[TheArcanist]

I just remembered something I think might help. At one point in one of the Stormlight Archive books, I can't remember if it was TWoK or WoR, Syl mentions that all the spren basically keep reality stable through mass consensus. Then we have a moment in TWoK where the spren researcher learns that the observation of a spren makes it static, unchanging, fixed at a certain size. I can't remember for the life of me where I read this, but I'm fairly certain that it's scientifically accepted that the observation of a sub-atomic particle changes it from being in flux, constantly changing size and position, to a static, observable object. Sort of like what was being tested in the "Schrodinger's Cat" experiment. So, if all of this is true, would that make spren and similar Cosmere entities the sub-atomic particles of the Cosmere?

[PorridgeBrick]

It's in WoR, when Syl calls gravity "an agreement between friends" that they keep consistent to avoid "breaking your brains".

I wouldn't say spren are the Cosmere's subatomic particles. I think the normal kinds of subatomic particles are the Cosmere's subatomic particles. The physics of the Cosmere are the same in the Physical realm as ours– they only change when the Cognitive or Spiritual butts in. But they could be somewhat analogous to the smallest particle of the Cognitive Realm. The Cognitive Realm is the Realm of ideas, and spren are ideas. It's unclear so far if ideas in the Cognitive have sub-ideas– if inside the Stick's sphere is a mini-sphere for each twig, inside them for each cell in the wood, inside them for each atom, et cetera. But if there aren't sub-ideas, then spren, as a pure, single idea, would then be some of the smallest building blocks in the Cognitive Realm.

[TheArcanist]

I wonder what that means for this theory then.

[PorridgeBrick]

I don't think it means anything for it, really. I personally read this theory as an analogy. As I read it, it's saying Investiture behaves like a physical duality of particle and radiation, even though it's really Spiritual in truth (mostly).

[Tempus]

Right. The nature of the cognitive realm doesn't have much impact on investiture - it's the other way around. Understanding investiture better may assist us in better predicting the behaviour of the cognitive realm. I'm starting to get some reasonably good ideas about how PRECISELY things like soulcasting, and other strange forms of investiture work. A big stumbling block still is the spiritual realm as well. If we could nail down the nature of the two realms, we could probably figure out investiture just from working backwards through the magics.