Bloodfalcon Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Long story short Szeth got brought back to life with a crescent shape fabrial. Nalan brought him back, so I was hoping to get a collection of information on a couple things: 1. Szeth thought the fabrial looked familiar - do we have any guesses as to where he might have seen it? 2. Every event Nalan has been at is now suspect in my eyes. I don't think Brandon wants to bring characters back to zombie life often, but I'd like if we could consider all of the other possibilities there. I.E. Can we think of anyone that has died within 5 minutes distance from where Nalan has been? We know Ym had some problems.... what about our boy Gavilar himself? Could Nalan have revived him and smuggled him away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Gavilar being alive was a huge speculative theory of mine pre-WoR. I think the trick with Nalan is that he can cure Shardblade deaths. He can Regrow the cut Spiritual connections. (Taravangian even implies this is possible.) The issue appears to be the brain. If the brain is destroyed, you're dead. Unless you're using Feruchemical gold and/or are holding lots of Stormlight. Makes sense, really. Regular methods of death should kill the vast majority of people with no potential for resurrection. I do not think Nalan has been raising lots of people - but the question really becomes why he has a fabrial for this sort of situation if it doesn't come up reasonably often. Perhaps Nalan has a cache with tons of fabrials and can afford to pick and choose as he goes? He certainly has an illusion fabrial (he turns himself into darkness, like Shallan does with Taln). What other fabrials does Nalan have? Perhaps something to track Surgebinding? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seloun Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 I do not think Nalan has been raising lots of people - but the question really becomes why he has a fabrial for this sort of situation if it doesn't come up reasonably often. Perhaps Nalan has a cache with tons of fabrials and can afford to pick and choose as he goes? He certainly has an illusion fabrial (he turns himself into darkness, like Shallan does with Taln). What other fabrials does Nalan have? Perhaps something to track Surgebinding? I'm inclined to say a Regrowth fabrial is probably pretty useful even if you aren't looking to resurrect people, just on general principle. I'm assuming however that the fabrial is not specifically for reviving people, but is a general healing tool. The bigger question seems to be how the heck he knows where Szeth is going to land? Maybe it's something to track Surgebinding as suggested, or maybe it's some kind of prediction? He also seems to know a lot about what Szeth has been doing - maybe some kind of clairvoyance fabrial (something Truthwatcher related, I'd assume, if so)? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delightful Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 I doubt Nalan would resurrect Ym three minutes after killing him, but the concept is fascinating. I don't think he could have got to Gavilar in time though - Jasnah was watching for what I would presume is definitely long enough for him to be brain dead (I admit I have no medical knowledge on how long that would take, I just guess it wouldn't be more than a couple minutes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigvsben Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 While it would actually make him slightly more of a jerk than he already comes across, I guess it's remotely possible Nalan could be resurrecting the potential Radiants he kills in an attempt to sever their bond to their Spren without actually permanently removing them. You'd think he'd manage to be a little bit less grim and terrible to people if this were the case, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delightful Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Do we know what happens to a spren when their Radiant dies? We only have a record of spren dying when a Radiant betrays their oaths. Add that to a Radiant dying and being resurrected...I dont think we know enough to guess Nalan's reviving them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted March 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 I doubt Nalan would resurrect Ym three minutes after killing him, but the concept is fascinating. I don't think he could have got to Gavilar in time though - Jasnah was watching for what I would presume is definitely long enough for him to be brain dead (I admit I have no medical knowledge on how long that would take, I just guess it wouldn't be more than a couple minutes) Yeah, I was going to suggest that he was either removing the bond and then resurrecting them OR just instituting that sick sense of justice he has by killing them for their crimes and then reviving them as a sort of ritualistic rebirth or a way to offer them a spot on his team of buttheads that he is apparently forming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PunSpren Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Well, this just made me think of something, It was mentioned ( I think ) that the skybreakers were almost supernaturally good at making things/ creating them. Its already believed in some circles that Shardplate is a fabrial created by one of the orders. So keeping this in mind it wouldn't surprise me at all if Nalan, as head of the skybreakers has tons of specialty fabrials sitting around. Although all that being said, I thought in the Ym interlude that it wasn't a fabrial that made him come out of the darkness, I just understood that to be that he used Shadesmar to travel into the shop and the darkness was him reappearing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 I think it would have come up if Gavilar's body had gone missing and hadn't been soulcast into crystal. Nalan deems Szeth worthy of resurrection because of Szeth's fanatical obedience to the laws of his people, in spite of their injustice. I don't see Nalan bothering to resurrect people he's executed himself because of their lawbreaking. I think, if anything, we can view Nalan's treatment of Szeth as the complete opposite of his treatment of Ym and the like. Szeth does not have a bonded spren, Ym did. Szeth was killed by Kaladin while attempting to follow the orders the laws of his people imposed on him; Ym was executed by Nalan for breaking the law. Szeth was resurrected for being worthy and given a chance at rebirth. There's nothing to indicate Ym would be given the same chance. At one point in WoK, Syl mentions that if Kaladin dies, she goes stupid again. Assuming she's correct, spren simply lose the benefit of the bond when a Radiant dies, and may need to begin the process all over again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartbug Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 The regrowth fabrial must do more than cure Shardblade wounds, or Szeth would still be dead. He fell through the everstorm on his way to the ground, yet when he wakes, he feels fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted March 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 Now that Jasnah is back alive, I have no reason to believe that seeing a body means anything. Probably right that Ym doesn't qualify, but I meant to point to more Nalan scenes more than anything. Bartbug, great point that he ended up falling to the ground through an Everstorm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted March 13, 2014 Report Share Posted March 13, 2014 We see Jasnah's body, but we also see Jasnah's body go missing. It's not where Shallan expects to trip over it. There's nothing to indicate that something similar happened to Gavilar, and enough people were thinking/regretting the aftermath of his death that something along the lines of "they hadn't even been able to prevent his corpse from being stolen" or "worse still, they had failed to give his body the proper rite of crystalcasting as he deserved as King" would probably have popped up. It is, admittedly, an argument from silence, but I find it fairly convincing, particularly given the way Jasnah's return is foreshadowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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