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Each Order's Role


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Aspects of WoR, especially the quotes from Shallan's book, indicate that each order of the KR played specific roles within the group, sometimes at odds with each other. I got to thinking about what those roles would be, based on their surges/temperments/ideals, if the KR were a traditional military organization today. This is what I came up with.

Generals - Bondsmiths

Infantry/Airforce - Windrunners

Marines - Stonewards

Demolitions/heavy infantry - Releasers

Special Forces - Edgedancers, Lightweavers

Medics - Edgedancers, Truthwatchers

Intelligence officers - Truthwatchers

Military Police - Skybreakers

Spies - Lightweavers

Logistics (food/supplies/housing) - Elsecallers, Lightweavers

Transportation/Communication - Elsecallers, Willshapers

Propaganda/Upper level officers - Willshapers

Any additional roles I missed? Disagree?

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Sort of close to what I was assuming, though I'd reorg as:

 

Windrunners - Tier 1/"tip of the spear" - seem to be the most mobile of the forces (I'm assuming Elsecalling is not as reliable or somehow inaccurate), probably the best combatants on a per individual basis since they have to get there fast, make a big difference, then move on quickly. Air cav?

 

Skybreakers - MPs (pretty much confirmed)

 

Releasers - Artillery/Siege

 

Edgedancers - Medevac/S&R

 

Truthwatchers - Hard to call given the lack of examples - they apparently have healing but also predictive capabilities, so hard to really pin a role for them. Something supporty though.

 

Lightweavers - Morale - I know Shallan does the espionage thing, but that part of what she doesn't really feel KR-ish to me; I think it's something Lightweaver acolytes would do during their progression, but the 'main' role of Lightweavers is to essentially buff everyone else.

 

Elsecallers - Mass transport, Logistics

 

Willshaper - I actually have no idea with this one.

 

Stonewards - Heavy infantry; presumably less mobile but tough.

 

Bondsmiths - I'd put them more administrative/political; would agree with 'general' though. Might be communications/dispatch too, which would fit with 'general' (in this case, it would be Bondsmith->other roles, not Bondsmith<->Bondsmith). Maybe use the Skyfather as a giant messenger service...

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This is great! Thx

I think the prep for this coming desolation is different though. These roles will be constants, but the main players seem unique. So far Kal, Shallan, and Lift each have a separate gift from their order.

Lift can create storm light (metabolize it directly from food). Shallan seems to be able to transform people (influence a person to change them, bandits into soliders, bad men into good, etc.) Kal seems to control wind in some way. Their spren seem to think they shouldn't be able to do these things.

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The Stonewards and Windrunners appear to deploy together, since both of the WoK visions with Radiants involved both orders. From the first vision they show up in, I think the Stonewards have some form of reasonably reliable teleportation that lets them match the Windrunner's strategic mobility, even if it's too expensive in stormlight to flicker around the battlefield.

Edited by name_here
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Willshapers refers to their ability to shape things, not their ability to change people's minds. The example Brandon gave of Cohesion was pressing your hand down on a block of metal and leaving a handprint.

 

That sounds a lot like a 'magic smith' archetype. Obviously they don't really need weapons, but perhaps fabrials and/or Shardplate (depending on how that theory goes)?

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Windrunners - Tier 1/"tip of the spear" - Air cav?

I like the sound of Air Cavalry for the windrunners

Releasers - Artillery/Siege

That's actually more what I was thinking but for some reason the word demolitions kept coming to mind

 

Truthwatchers - Hard to call given the lack of examples - they apparently have healing but also predictive capabilities, so hard to really pin a role for them. Something supporty though.

Their ability to see the future and the description of them being very secretive about their information and motivations screams intelligence agency to me. I picture them as the KR's CIA.

 

Lightweavers - Morale - I know Shallan does the espionage thing, but that part of what she doesn't really feel KR-ish to me.

Not sure why you'd say her espionage isn't KR-ish. It wouldn't sit well with, say, the windrunners but each order has its own morals. If it wasn't KR-ish, shallan would soon find herself without a spren. As Shallan demonstrates, the lightweaver abilities are too perfectly suited for espionage for them to be wasted on anything but that role.

 

Stonewards - Heavy infantry; presumably less mobile but tough.

Agreed
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Willshapers refers to their ability to shape things, not their ability to change people's minds. The example Brandon gave of Cohesion was pressing your hand down on a block of metal and leaving a handprint.

Yeah, I know, but I was really running out of ideas for roles and had no idea how that ability would specifically be used within the overall group so just went with the sound of their name :)

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Their ability to see the future and the description of them being very secretive about their information and motivations screams intelligence agency to me. I picture them as the KR's CIA.

 

...

Not sure why you'd say her espionage isn't KR-ish. It wouldn't sit well with, say, the windrunners but each order has its own morals. If it wasn't KR-ish, shallan would soon find herself without a spren. As Shallan demonstrates, the lightweaver abilities are too perfectly suited for espionage for them to be wasted on anything but that role.

 

I could see Truthwatchers in an intelligence agency role; I just can't figure out how to fit the Regrowth surge into it. Based on Ym's interlude it appears to be actually healing ability, though I guess metaphorically they might 'heal' 'illumination' = lie detection or some other interrogative power. Would make sense with the 'I see' declaration by Renarin.

 

Mainly the reason I focus on the buffing/morale aspect is due to the epigraphs. I concede an espionage role fits what we've seen of their power set pretty well (though against Voidbringers I'm not sure that really comes into effect that much). The epigraphs only specifically mention their boosting ability, though.

 

That said, the Edgedancer epigraph doesn't really focus on what their Ideal seems to represent, so it's certainly possible Lightweavers do both roles. I just like the idea that Lightweavers _start_ as scouts/infiltration (since presumably they're all going to be good at lying about themselves at first) but as they progress, they tend to trade in that for 'beneficial' lying. i.e. morale/buffing. No real evidence, it just feels like it fits the way they progress well.

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That said, the Edgedancer epigraph doesn't really focus on what their Ideal seems to represent, so it's certainly possible Lightweavers do both roles. I just like the idea that Lightweavers _start_ as scouts/infiltration (since presumably they're all going to be good at lying about themselves at first) but as they progress, they tend to trade in that for 'beneficial' lying. i.e. morale/buffing. No real evidence, it just feels like it fits the way they progress well.

 

Honestly, I looked at the epigraphs for the other orders but didn't even think about looking back at the one for lightweavers because we saw so much of them with Shallan. I see now what you mean about their buffing the army's morale. I still think espionage will be part of their skill set but I like your idea of them starting in that and the higher level members supporting morale. They actually then would fit more in the propaganda role.

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It would be fun to build response taktics to certain events.

-grand assault (voidbringers+ thunderclast in large numbers)/ orders+normal soldiers

-small numbers of voidbringers /all over the country

-supplyline protection

 

so eg. tactic for supply: get a ligthweaver to mask thier progress

 

so along those lines

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We now know Windrunners could have/make Radiant Squires and it seems like a unique ability to them. So each Windrunner would in fact be a Platoon or Company leader which means that they made up the bulk of the troops and goes with their leadership attribute. 

 

I see the Windrunners as being the base of the pyramid and doing most of the fighting.   

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On solo missions Lightweavers can be used as spy but in a group dynamics I think they will be used as full support.

Say they go fighting, the Lightweavers role will be to duplicate more fighters into the rush, confusing the enemies who is real and who isn't, therefore making it easier to kill them (like the chasmfiend scene), think of Naruto kage-bunshin for example ;) or ninja bunshins(clones) in general.

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We now know Windrunners could have/make Radiant Squires and it seems like a unique ability to them. So each Windrunner would in fact be a Platoon or Company leader which means that they made up the bulk of the troops and goes with their leadership attribute. 

 

I see the Windrunners as being the base of the pyramid and doing most of the fighting.   

 

Squires are probably from several orders. In Dalinar's vision in "Taker of Secrets" (ch. 4):

 

 

Not just a Shardbearer. Radiant. A knight in resplendent Shardplate that glowed with a deep red at the joints and in certain markings. Armor did that in the shadowdays. This vision was taking place before the Recreance.

 

and later:

 

 

Dalinar finished repeating the words. Beyond him, the fight began in earnest, water splashing, rock grinding. Soldiers approached bearing hammers, and unexpectedly, these men now also glowed with Stormlight, though far more faintly.

 

Given the color of her armor, she is likely a Releaser or Lightweaver (more likely the former, as she appears to use the Abrasion surge while walking through the water). The men are almost certainly her squires.

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When I hear the name Willshapers I always think of debuffs in mmorpgs. shape the will of men, lower the enemy morale and rise your troops.

yes I know, that's not what described about Transportation and Cohesion surges, but I can't help it.

Edited by shinintendo
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Here is my take with a few changes in BOLD  :)

 

 

Generals/Public Relations- Bondsmiths

Reconnaissance/Rapid response - Windrunners, Skybreakers 

Heavy Infantry - Stonewards

Artillery/Heavy weapons- Releasers (aka Dustbringers), Skybreakers

Special Forces - Edgedancers

Medics - Edgedancers, Truthwatchers

Intelligence Analysts (desk bound intel officers- Truthwatchers

 

Military Police - Skybreakers

Field Intelligence/Propaganda/Espionage    - Lightweavers

Logistics (food/supplies/housing) - Elsecallers, Lightweavers

Transportation/Communication - Elsecallers, Willshapers

Engineering  - Willshapers

Edited by Fifth
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Windrunners- Recon, air cavalry, rapid response

Skybreakers- Military police, recon, air cavalry, rapid response

Releasers- Artillery

Edgedancers- Battlefield medic, Special Forces

Truthwatchers- Bedside doctor, Intelligence Analyst

Lightweavers- Espionage, Propaganda, Supply

Elsecallers- Supply, Transportation, Communication

Willshapers-Transportation, Communication, Demolition

Stonewards-Engineers, Demolition (toppling walls with a touch), Heavy Infantry

Bondsmiths- General

Principle roles in bold.

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I do not at all see the Bondsmiths as generals. Not only do the Windrunners have the leader of the Heralds, Bondsmiths are also so few in number that they can't act as consistent leaders. Perhaps the Count is right and they act as arbiters among the other orders, but I also think that they deal with a lot of Spiritual aspects of the Surges. Note the special strategy the Bondsmith in the epigraph used against the Parshendi, possibly turning them into parshmen.

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To add to the discussion, I bet some of the orders were not even primarily martial though they would have a martial role when needed.

Like Edgedancers would be focused on charity to the poor and forgotten.

Others would be educators and researchers, artists, whatever lines up well with their primary and secondary attributes.

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Lift feels like she may have similar character progression to Vin but well without all the trust issues. Grows into this fluid elegant woman that makes all other women look dull when she wants to and still be her usual awesome self at other times.

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