FirstSelector Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 I want to give context to the question I asked Brandon at the LA signing, but you can skip ahead if you just want the punchline. Some time ago I was reading the Well of Ascension alternate ending. It is significantly different from the original, and most of what I am interested in happens on page 2 where Sazed fights Marsh. The remainder of this post contains spoilers, so beware. In this ending, Marsh and Sazed are fighting at the remote headquarters of the Steel Inquisitors. In particular, Marsh is fighting to prevent Sazed from going back to the etched steel plate where he would discover Ruin's trickery. During the fight, however, there is a significant change. Marsh is about to strike the killing blow when several mist spirits show up. These spirits appear to have a mental argument with Marsh, which eventually culminates in him fleeing the building and leaving Sazed to discover the truth behind the prophecy. Originally, I thought that these spirits were the manifestations of other Shards. Presumably, they had enough future sight to see that Marsh couldn't be allowed to kill Sazed as the latter was still destined to pick up Ruin and Preservation. This was exciting to me, so I asked Brandon if he could tell me more about them. The answer is much more interesting! His inscription on my book is thus: For years, I have been playing with the idea of "Cognitive Shadows." They can show up on any world. He went on to say that in the alternate ending, the mist spirits are the Cognitive Shadows of the First Generation of Kandra. Of course, they were aware of the original version of the prophecy and Sazed's importance. This was removed from the book so that it didn't cloud the waters. However, there is a story where these ideas were later incorporated - Shadows for Silence! The shades are these types of objects. Furthermore, and perhaps even more interestingly, he mentioned one other person in this context, someone who "refuses to stay dead" - referring to Kelsier. In any case, I figured that this is of general interest and allows us to connect several previously disparate phenomenon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 So the Shades in Shadows for Silence are cognitive shadows of their previous selves but twisted by the Evil of that world or something? Or did he just say that and move on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstSelector Posted March 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 He didn't delve into specifics, he just said they are Cognitive Shadows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 We have heard the term cognitive shadow before: Q: At the end of the trilogy Sazed communicates with Kelsier so there is something going on with an afterlife. Is it uniform across the cosmere? B: What is happening there is not actually technically an afterlife, well it kind of is, it is what we call a cognitive shadow its when your spirit is not moving on yet. So there is a Beyond but there is a-- basically it is what we would call in our world a ghost, and there are actually magic systems based around that. Actually the story I have coming out in George R.R. Martin’s next anthology is a ghost story involving this same--yes it is cosmere based. Yes, that would be consistent, they don’t all have the same mythology regarding it. But it would be consistent, what happened with Kelsier could have happened on any of the planets. (source) But as for the difference between the shades and Kelsier, I think it has something to do with them being in the Physical Realm while Kelsier is in the Cognitive Realm, "cognitive things" like cognitive shadows, or spren, have a hard time manifesting sentience while in the Physical without aid (i.e. Nahel bond). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstSelector Posted March 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Excellent, thanks for finding that quote. I think I recall seeing this before, but a cursory search around the site didn't bring anything up. My understanding of this phenomenon was that the shadows are mostly cognitive entities and thus exist mostly in the Cognitive realm. However, the part that "leaks over," as it were, is incredibly dangerous. Therein lies the change the Shard made to the world - not only are people trapped as shadows, they are compelled to follow the rules and their physical manifestation is poisonous. Actually, the damage they inflict seems very similar in some ways to the damage dealt by Shardblades. I wonder if there are general statements we can make about how Cognitive objects interact with living Physical beings. Finally, I would be willing to bet that Kelsier could manifest in some very ephemeral way on Scadrial (or wherever he is) if he so chose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Hmm... Words of Radiance (Epilogue) Spoilers I wonder if this is related to how Nalan / Nan explains Szeth's revival. I am pretty sure he used a Regrowth fabrial there, but he also had a pretty narrow and specific time frame - he had to use the fabrial before Szeth's brain died. You will need the spoiler above to see the (slightly flimsy) evidence for my theory, but you don't need it to understand the theory itself. It's not hard to imagine that the brain is the... focus or source of one's cognitive aspect. So I have to wonder if people around the cosmere die in stages. Under normal circumstances, your body will die before your brain does - so is there a period during which your cognitive (and spiritual) self is "alive," even though you are not? If so, then perhaps it is during this period that people can leave / turn into cognitive shadows. Because of reasons. Furthermore, I posit that if nothing... exciting happens during this period of time between physical death and cognitive death, the cognitive self also dies, and only the spiritual one is left. The soul, as it were. I don't think we have seen any souls hanging out in the physical realm, so I am going to assume that each thing's spiritual aspect permanently resides in the spiritual realm. Which we know is, in a way, heaven. So. The whole "moving on" thing is not so much about moving to to and through the other realms, but about letting go of your more... mortal selves. In my theory people don't go through the spiritual realm and into the afterlife, they abandon their physical and cognitive selves and stay only in the spiritual realm, which is the afterlife. Kind of. I need to think about this some more and make it a theory of its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 As you go about making a theory on this Argent, think about the WoB which says that there is something beyond the Spiritual realm as well... Cant' wait for the theory though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 That actually makes it easier to put things together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skavoovee Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Ahhh, but what if someone on Roshar bonds Kelsier and, through the bond, he manages to physically manifest himself a new body there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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