Theory: Torture in Damnation "Recent"; caused by founding of KR

[Bramble Thorn]

Citations Follow.
 

When he survived the Desolation, he was supposed to go back as well. Back to that place that he dreaded. Back to that place of pain and fire.

Kalak felt something within him break at the admission. How long had it been? Centuries, perhaps millennia, of torture. It was so hard to keep track. Those fires, those hooks, digging into his flesh anew each day. Searing the skin off his arm, then burning the fat, then driving to the bone. He could smell it. Almighty, he could smell it!

 

In the aftermath of each one, mankind was broken. Great cities in ashes, industry smashed. Each time, knowledge and growth were reduced to an almost prehistoric state—it took centuries of rebuilding to restore civilization to what it had been before.

“The Knights Radiant,” the Almighty said, standing up beside Dalinar, watching the knight attack the nightmare beast. “They were a solution, a way to offset the destruction of the Desolations. Ten orders of knights, founded with the purpose of helping men fight, then rebuild.”

“I was surprised when these orders arrived. I did not teach my Heralds this. It was the spren—

Unfortunately I am missing a quote, about the number of Desolations. I thought someone (an ardent?) said there were thought to were 99 or 100 Desolations, including the Last Desolation, when the Voidbringers were "driven back to the Tranquiline Halls".

For the purposes of this theory I am assuming it exists somewhere. and I did not hallucinate it. Any help locating it appreciated...

So. This is basically a math discrepancy. Even it was (much) less than 100 Desolations, there must have been a lot of them, enough that choosing 100 Desolations as a nice round number didn't raise any eyebrows when the histories were written afterward.
 
These can last decades, are comprehensively destructive, and take centuries to recover from. As an implication, there are centuries between Desolations. If not, there would never be a recovery, instead of a centuries long one.
 
The Heralds are not there to help the rebuilding, as they have to go to Damnation between Desolations. Being conservative, if there were 50 Desolations, with 100 years (a century as opposed to centuries) between them, that is 5,000 years in Damnation at a minimum.
 
The time they have been tortured is "Centuries, PERHAPS Millennia of torture"
 
If the torture had been going on from the beginning, there would have been no uncertainty. it would have been "uncounted Millennium of torture" So the Torture seems to have only started in the last 5-12 Desolations.
 
And I think the reason why is the due to the Knights Radiant, and how effective they were during the Desolations, and picking up the pieces afterwards. Before the KR, it went like this:
 
The Heralds come to the world, announce the Desolation, and have a little time to kick everyone's asses in gear. Then the Voidbringers weigh in. They try to destroy everything. You, and your little dog too!
 
The are beaten back at great cost. Desolation over, so the Heralds leave. Mankind is left to pick up the pieces by themselves. They know the Voidbringers will be back, but not in the lifetimes of themselves, or their children's or grandchildren's lifetimes. (I.e. not in any current incumbents term of office)
 
Also, before the Voidbringers were defeated, in addition to getting you and your dog, they got the Westminster kennel club, and all the dog care books they could find, in hopes of getting the next ten generations of dogs by proxy. 
 
Odium seemed to be playing a numbers game. All those Desolations, he only needed to win ONE. And if people were not diligent about rebuilding civilization and preparing, they would start the next Desolation at a disadvantage. From there, Odiums gains would start to snowball.
 
The came the something that was never part of the plan, the Knights Radiant. Now there had always been Surge Binders, but they ran the gamut of human experience. Some kept their head on their shoulders; some had their head up their chull. And as power has a tendency to corrupt, there were probably more of the latter.
 
But thanks to the Oaths Radiant, the ones who were able to get their act together were not just qualitatively a better class of people, they were quantitatively more powerful than your garden variety douchebag. It was a dark day in the annals of human dickery.
 
So basically, in addition to the 10 Heralds, you have hundreds of Mini Heralds, both in power and personality, will not go away when the battles are done. Even if you had 90% casualties, there are still dozens upon dozens left after the Desolation, to serve as a seed to civilization. And gentlemen, they can rebuild it! Stronger. Better.
 
What took centuries to rebuild now takes decades. The nations that face the next Desolation have caught up to where they were, and begun to go beyond it. Odium's old path to victory is no longer viable. If the number of total Desolations allowed by the Oathpact is limited, he may even be looking at the possibility of total defeat.
 
So, time for some Epic Rules Lawyering...
 
(Personally, I like another persons theory here, that the Heralds had a home base and respawn point in the Tranquiline Halls, which was not covered in the Oathpact, except for them retiring there between Desolations. When he shifted tactics he invaded it and started spawn camping, because it was not covered in the rules. Thus the Tranquiline Halls became Damnation)

Edited January 23, 2014 by Bramble Thorn

[Chaos]

Huh. I wasn't sure when I first started reading, but it's not entirely unreasonable. There are some unique ideas here. I especially like the idea that Odium made the Tranquiline Halls become Damnation--it certainly fits with Vorin mythology, that the Voidbringers conquered the Tranquiline Halls. Considering that there are three planets in the Rosharan system--Roshar, Ashyn, and Braize--and I don't think Ashyn is the Tranquiline Halls, since that's Silence Divine's world, that it seems reasonable that Braize could have taken both roles. Especially since Odium is on Braize, not Roshar. With the advent of the Knights Radiant, Odium may have decided that it was easier to focus on breaking the Heralds, as the Radiants could have broken themselves.

Of course, that largely depends on the exact nature of the Oathpact, which we don't know. But still, this is pretty well thought out!

(Also, because this contains Words of Radiance stuff, I'm going to move this into the WoR Spoiler subboard. Some people really don't want prerelease spoilers)

[Kadrok]

I like it. Upvote. Even if it was terrible, though, I'd upvote it because intertextuality is hilarious.

[Tarion]

The quote you're looking for:

“I told you the basics, Shallan. The Voidbringers were an embodiment of evil. We fought them off ninety and nine times, led by the Heralds and their chosen knights, the ten orders we call the Knights Radiant. Finally, Aharietiam came, the Last Desolation. The Voidbringers were cast back into the Tranquiline Halls. The Heralds followed to force them out of heaven as well, and Roshar’s Heraldic Epochs ended. Mankind entered the Era of Solitude. The modern era.”

 

Kabsal, in Chapter 45.

 

It's worth noting that he's hardly a reputable source.  But as he's playing the role of one, I think that he'd stick to the truth for this.  

[Aether]

This theory assumes, though, that the Heralds have a similar perception of time in Damnation as we do. There could be some funky stuff going on there, especially since we already know that there are wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff in the Cosmere. In addition, I didn't necessarily get the impression that Kalak's "Centuries, perhaps millennia, of torture" was referring to the total time spent in damnation, but maybe just the most recent one.

 

I like the theory, but I think there are too many holes in our information about this to say much for certain.

[vikorr]

I think there are two easier reasons for the 'Centuries, perhaps Millenia' quote :

 

1. Brandon didn't quite think the quote through

 

2. It's impossible to keep track of time if you are constantly tortured...the difference between 10 years of torture and 100 years of torture may not be as graspable as you think - to the person enduring the torture.

Edited January 23, 2014 by vikorr

[Aleksiel]

Time could be different in the place Heralds are between Desolations. I don't remember the actual quote, but in one of Dalinar's visions Honor said the Everstorm was a thousand days away. It's unlikely that Honor died during the events of WoK, so probably what was 1000 days to Honor is not 1000 days in Roshar. Same with the Heralds. 

 

What I really don't understand is why there is no Desolation for 4500 years since the Heralds broke their Oathpact. Is there a connection?