Eriond Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Hello all. I've been lurking for a while on these forums, and I thought I'd introduce myself by way of a theory. It's all super-tenuous, as these things go, since there hasn't been much information relating to the God Beyond, but since I can't seem to find anyone else espousing this theory (I searched, but didn't see anything), I may as well start off here. I'm probably wrong, but since I don't think the god beyond fits in with any of the shards, and by extension, with Adonalsium at all, I think the god beyond is same as the thing that "opposes Adonalsium", that Brandon mentioned at one point. Could potentially be an outsider (i.e. not from the cosmere universe); some sort of Cthulhu-esque being that is an anathema to the cosmere itself? Just a thought. Edited January 16, 2014 by Eriond 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yados Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Well that would certainly be more interesting than the obvious interpretation; that the God Beyond serves as a traditional Judeo-Christian God in a fictional world that is way more interesting without one. Edit: Lol, "Christion" Edited January 22, 2014 by Yados Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriond Posted January 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Yeah; I'm kind of worried about that, but I have a feeling that it's probably not. While I know Sanderson is a Christian, in his words (paraphrased), he's not necessarily out to teach lessons or whatnot through his books, he's out to be awesome. So while an over-power with a Judeo-Christian bent is possible, I don't think so. 'course, it's pretty hard to know Sanderson's mind, so I guess it's all up in the air. Edited January 16, 2014 by Eriond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+eveorjoy Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I'm the same denomination as Sanderson. I can assure you, though his books have good values, he isn't teaching our church's doctrines. The god of the Cosmere has nothing to do with the Judo-Christian God. I love the Cthulhu theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Well that would certainly be more interesting than the obvious interpretation; that the God Beyond serves as a traditional Judeo-Christion God in a fictional world that is way more interesting without one. As an atheist myself, I actually find Brandon's use of religion to be quite tasteful and highly intriguing. And considering Adonalsium, the Power of Creation, is shattered, and that there is an opposing force that is still around and currently a lot stronger than any single Shard - if his works ARE Mormon propaganda, it is so far a peculiar and highly ineffective one. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeckal Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I hate to be the "hey guys! What are we talking about" person, but uh, what are we talking about? Hahaha, I don't remember a God Beyond being mentioned in the books I've read, is this something mentioned outside of MIstborn and Storm-light? (I haven't read Warbreaker or Elantris, so it could be from there and I wouldn't know) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 The name itself comes from "The Emperors Soul", which prompted someone to ask Brandon directly about it. So far, we know that it was a force opposing Adonalsium, which is still around. I'm on a buss rift now (unfortunately not a boat) and can't look for the actual quotes, but if you go to coppermind.com and search for it, you should get the relevant information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 The name does not come from TES, it is known as the Unknown God. Both Wayne and Silence Montane reference this God Beyond. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pechvarry Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Did we get confirmation that the unknown god and god beyond are linked? I DON'T think we actually have anything that says either term refers at all to Adonalsium's opposition (I'm still pushing for Anti-nalsium). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriond Posted January 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I think we have a WoB on this, where he uses them interchangeably; here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/1ced7z/iamstilla_novelist_named_brandon_sanderson_ama/c9fpunp As for referring to Adonalsium's opposition, nah; there's nothing; I just wanted to throw out a long shot in the off-chance that I'm right ten years down the line or something. Would be awesome. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khmauv Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 When I read TES I just assumed that the Unknown God was Odium. He is foreign to Sel and his appearance coincides with magic rocks (that I also assume are some manifestation of a shattered shard) falling from the sky. To me this has Odium written all over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 When I read TES I just assumed that the Unknown God was Odium. He is foreign to Sel and his appearance coincides with magic rocks (that I also assume are some manifestation of a shattered shard) falling from the sky. To me this has Odium written all over it.Unless these are fragments of Dominion or Devotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khmauv Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 That is exactly what I am getting at. Odium shows, up shatters dominion and devotion and the result...magic rocks from heaven. Thanks Unknown God! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 That is exactly what I am getting at. Odium shows, up shatters dominion and devotion and the result...magic rocks from heaven. Thanks Unknown God!Or they were just plain old meteors, you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khmauv Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 (O.o) ...plain old meteors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriond Posted January 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) When I read TES I just assumed that the Unknown God was Odium. He is foreign to Sel and his appearance coincides with magic rocks (that I also assume are some manifestation of a shattered shard) falling from the sky. To me this has Odium written all over it. That makes a lot of sense actually, though the only thing that makes me doubt it is Wayne mentioning it in Alloy of Law; as far as we know, Scadrial is under Sazed's protection from external influences like Odium. So unless Wayne's a worldhopper, or heard about it from someone who is, I'm not sure this is that strong an indication. Edited January 16, 2014 by Eriond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alaxel Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Eriod, I'm glad to see you delurk yourself. I also have taken an intrest to the force that opposed Adonalsium lately. Since there is no mention of such a thing in the books - at least not that we're aware of - its almost impossible to come to any concrete conclusions. However, I have done a small speculation myself but, rather than your God Beyond theory, which I've upvoted for the question's your puzzling over if nothing else, I limited myself to more metaspeculation. Here's what I've come up with. Adonalsium is the power of creation. Something from Nothing, if you will. The only logical thing that could oppose it would be the power of unmaking. I hesitate to call it destruction because this force, which I think of as the Void, would be Nothing from Something. Destruction isn't thourough enough. If you shatter a stained glass window, the shards remain. It's the Laws of Thermodynamics. If Adonalsium violates those laws (Something from Nothing) then its opposite must also break them (Nothing from Something.) I'm fairly certain I'm right about this. It would be like Ruin and Preservation taken to extremes. Rather than acting like Entropy, Ruin, or the Void in this comparison, would literally remove things from existence. Rather than acting like Stasis, Preservation, or Adonalsium in this comparison, would literally create from nothing. Now, this is where my certainty ends. But bear with me. Rayse is the original holder of Odium. Hoid knew Rayse. Hoid was at the Shattering of Adonalsium. Therefore, I believe Rayse, along with the other original holder of the Shards of Adonalsium, were also present at the Shattering. Now, if these individuals had enough knowledge of the Cosmere to both know what Adonalsium was and to be able to Shatter it, I believe its reasonable to assume they were also aware of the Void that opposed Adonalsium. Odium is hatred. He inspires hatred in others. I wonder...does he hate himself as well? Is it is goal to bring all of the Cosmere to Nothingness? To Bring the Void? Could his agents be the Voidbringers? Like I said. It's mostly metaspeculation. About a week ago I bought a hardcover Way of Kings from Brandon Sanderson's store and, for my personalisation I asked, "Please tell me something about Odium that no one knows about yet." But I wish I had asked about the force that opposes Adonalsium. Anyway, good theory Eriond! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromium Compounder Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 That makes a lot of sense actually, though the only thing that makes me doubt it is Wayne mentioning it in Alloy of Law; as far as we know, Scadrial is under Sazed's protection from external influences like Odium. So unless Wayne's a worldhopper, or heard about it from someone who is, I'm not sure this is that strong an indication. I'm pretty sure Wayne is referencing one of the religions in the Words of Origin books that Sazed gave people at the end of HoA. It could be something learned from a world hopper before TLR's time though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartbug Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 @Aether: WHere do we get that the force that opposes Adonalsium (or opposed) is the strongest thing in the cosmere? I'm pretty sure we have WoB that Harmony is on top right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alaxel Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 @Bartbug I'm in my cellular telephone so I won't pull up the exact quote, though I can later if you'd like. Someone asked if there was anything more powerful than Shards in the Cosmere. Brandon said they were the most powerful overt forces, but that subtler forces maybe be at play. Then he said that "an argument could be made that Harmony is most powerful." I took that to mean Harmony is the most powerful Shard and that the "subtler forces" at play was the Void* that opposed Adonalsium. If the Void* was powerful enough to oppose Adonalsium, then even Harmony wouldn't be able to match its power. *I've been refering to the force that opposed Adonalsium as the Void. It's just a personal term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Odium is hatred. He inspires hatred in others. I wonder...does he hate himself as well? I think we can say no to that. The intents of the shards are "external" not "internal", i.e. Preservation didn't preserve himself, Ruin didn't ruin himself, Cultivation doesn't cultivate herself. Therefore I don't think hating himself is part of Odium's Intent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I think we can say no to that. The intents of the shards are "external" not "internal", i.e. Preservation didn't preserve himself, Ruin didn't ruin himself, Cultivation doesn't cultivate herself. Therefore I don't think hating himself is part of Odium's Intent.Doesn't mean he does not hate literally everything else and wants to be the only conscious being in the Cosmere at the end of it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arook Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Doesn't mean he does not hate literally everything else and wants to be the only conscious being in the Cosmere at the end of it all.I don't think he would want to be the last person, in a really messed up way that would create peace. If he is the only one left he can't hate anything or create hate in others then. I think his end goal is more complicated then total destruction 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I don't think he would want to be the last person, in a really messed up way that would create peace. If he is the only one left he can't hate anything or create hate in others then. I think his end goal is more complicated then total destruction I wonder if every galaxy in the Cosmere has it's Adonalsium and it's Shards? Perhaps he wishes to wage perpetual war with the rest of the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morsk Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 That makes a lot of sense actually, though the only thing that makes me doubt it is Wayne mentioning it in Alloy of Law; as far as we know, Scadrial is under Sazed's protection from external influences like Odium.Do we know if Wayne is a Survivorist? Demoux says this towards the end of Chapter 17 in Hero of Ages: Demoux shook his head. "No, my lord. Kelsier the man died in those Pits, and Kelsier the Survivor was born. He was granted great power, and great wisdom, by a force that is above us all. That is why he accomplished what he did. That is why we worship him. He still had the follies of a man, but he had the hopes of a divinity." Demoux doesn't call it the God Beyond, and we don't know it's the same thing, but it could be. That would make it fairly benevolent though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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