Theory: Eyecolor and Radiants Who've Sworn the Ideals

[Moogle]

Nothing much to this theory, just a little connection between Kaladin's ability to hold Stormlight and the Radiants.

 

 

Kaladin sighed, realizing he had a little Stormlight raging in his veins. He hadn’t even noticed drawing it in, but he seemed to be getting better and better at holding it. He frequently took in a little these days while walking about. Holding Stormlight was like filling a wineskin—if you filled it to bursting and unstopped it, it would squirt out quickly, then slow to a trickle. Same with the Light.

 

It's commonly accepted that the more Ideals you swear, the greater your ability to hold Stormlight (or be more efficient with it?) becomes.

 

My theory is simply that by the point the Radiants swear all five Ideals, their ability to hold Stormlight is such that they will effectively never run out. They'll always have a low-grade burn on like Kaladin, and over time it 'stains' their eyes into a lighter color, sort of like becoming a savant in Mistborn if you keep burning a metal. Constantly having Investiture going through you apparently has physical effects - I theorize that these result in a lighter eye color, and it wouldn't surprise me to learn the Radiants had other perks, like being immortal.

 

Oh, and because this is a physical change (likely to your sDNA), this would likely be inherited by your children, so I'd guess that all lighteyes are descended from Radiants who held enough Stormlight to have this change occur.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Moogle

[Cad]

Interesting theory. If the radiants do become immortal, it would explain a few things. Too little info to even make an educated guess at this point, though. I wonder how many more of the Ideals Kaladin will work through in WoR. I have a feeling they'll come to him when he's protecting people which could end up being gimmicky. I have faith that Brandon won't let that happen, though. I want to find out what some of the Ideals are from other orders, too.

[Moogle]

Oh, a few other things:

• Probably-Shallash, Baxil's mistress, has light eyes while Taln does not. This could have happened as Shallash kept using Stormlight over the past thousand+ years (possibly constantly using illusions all the while), and Taln has had next to no time to use Stormlight to that degree.
• Immortality should be expected, because of Darkness' lackeys apparently being Radiants. Having an excess of Breath results in immortality, so I would suspect constant Stormlight use will be similar.

I don't suppose anyone's taken note of the other potential Herald's eyecolor? Lift didn't see fit to remark on the color of Darkness' eyes (just that they were 'dead'), nor did Szeth on the beggar during Gavilar's feast.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Moogle

[Cad]

Hadn't thought about that. If you are correct about the constant use of stormlight, then it would indeed follow that immortality (aside from mortal wounds, etc.) would be achieved. The stormlight would immediately heal any of the environmental damage to the body that causes aging. I actually developed a magic system that would do the same thing for a book I was once writing, where the magic users would be immortal because of the same reason, innate magic immediately healing free radical damage, but never thought of those implications with stormlight.

[zandi]

Interesting. I always assumed that at one point eye color meant nothing. Then with the advent of radiants, people with dark eyes had light eyes when they used storm light. After the Radiants disbanded, people were lost and scared and gravitated towards people with light eyes out of habit of associating that with the radiants...and thus the caste system came to be....at least for the Alethi.

[zandi]

sorry forgot to add- this explains why you don't need to be a light eyes to become a radiant or be a herald.  

 

I don't think the change would need to be inheritable but it could be...would also dovetail with why people sought light eyes - they assumed  (wrongly) the radiants ideals would be "in the blood" so to speak. Could be either way though.

[HydrogenAlpha]

I kinda got the impression that being a lighteye is different from just having blue/green eyes ( in our world ). It would be interesting to see if the eyecolors would stay "bright" ( in a vivid way ) if there where no highstorms or would revert back to just blue/green. 
That would expain whether or whether not the stormlight in the area fuels the eyes of the Brightlords.. maybe because of their bloodline they're able to unconsciously use a little bit of it.

[Aether]

Oh, a few other things:

• Probably-Shallash, Baxil's mistress, has light eyes while Taln does not. This could have happened as Shallash kept using Stormlight over the past thousand+ years (possibly constantly using illusions all the while), and Taln has had next to no time to use Stormlight to that degree.
• Immortality should be expected, because of Darkness' lackeys apparently being Radiants. Having an excess of Breath results in immortality, so I would suspect constant Stormlight use will be similar.

I don't suppose anyone's taken note of the other potential Herald's eyecolor? Lift didn't see fit to remark on the color of Darkness' eyes (just that they were 'dead'), nor did Szeth on the beggar during Gavilar's feast.

How in the world did you conclude that Darkness' lackeys are Radiants?

[Moogle]

How in the world did you conclude that Darkness' lackeys are Radiants?

 

This bit from the Lift interlude:

 

 

Darkness actually let go of her, striding over to slap the minion across the face. “Without the law, there is nothing. You will subject yourself to their rules, and accept the dictates of justice. It is all we have, the only sure thing in this world.”

 

Emphasis on "all we have". I doubt his lackeys are Heralds, but they could be Radiants. They didn't Surgebind (Darkness probably would kill them if they were Surgebinders), but they could have been Radiants who gave up their spren.

 

The way the minions acted implies they might not be Radiants. I think it's a decent possibility, though.

[Aether]

Emphasis on "all we have". I doubt his lackeys are Heralds, but they could be Radiants. They didn't Surgebind (Darkness probably would kill them if they were Surgebinders), but they could have been Radiants who gave up their spren.

 

The way the minions acted implies they might not be Radiants. I think it's a decent possibility, though.

I just don't see it. That "we" could just be a general "we humans(oid)s". There is no emphasis in the text. I doubt that surgebinding gives you Agelessness.

[Kier]

I could actually get behind this.. I think I agree more with Aether that the lackeys of Darkness are probably not Radiants. However, I could see the Surgebinding giving agelessness. Also the holding of stormlight slowly lighteneing your eyecolor perminately. 

 

The Radiant in the Ferverstone Keep has almost white eyes. To me that seems to point to not only light eyes, but bright light eyes, and thats after he gave up his shards. 

 

I do think however, when the Radiants gave up their blades and plate, They also gave up their Bond and Spren, and they also, in my opinion lost their ability to hold stormlight and surgebind. So even if their surgebinding did provide Agelessness, after that, they were mortal and probably died. 

[Arook]

It could also just give really long life and remember that every radiant we have see has almost white eyes. Something Dalinar notes as odd so I'm sure its important.

[Kurkistan]

Hadn't thought about that. If you are correct about the constant use of stormlight, then it would indeed follow that immortality (aside from mortal wounds, etc.) would be achieved. The stormlight would immediately heal any of the environmental damage to the body that causes aging. I actually developed a magic system that would do the same thing for a book I was once writing, where the magic users would be immortal because of the same reason, innate magic immediately healing free radical damage, but never thought of those implications with stormlight.

 

Even if stormlight does somehow grant immortality, that explanation isn't enough to cut it.

 

*Mistborn Spoilers*

 

Miles and TLR both still aged despite being Feruchemical gold compounders.

[Moogle]

Even if stormlight does somehow grant immortality, that explanation isn't enough to cut it.

 

*Mistborn Spoilers*

 

Miles and TLR both still aged despite being Feruchemical gold compounders.

 

I would have thought the explanation of Stormlight as Investiture would be enough. Feruchemical gold compounding doesn't mean you're holding Investiture, whereas holding Breaths and Stormlight does.

 

As to Darkness' lackeys, I have thought it over and they probably aren't Radiants. Shalash's aren't, and the theory says that holding Stormlight would grant immortality. The lackeys are quite clearly not holding Stormlight. If they were, Darkness would have killed them for being Surgebinders. I think they might be, but it's unlikely, now.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Moogle

[Kurkistan]

Interesting thought, though quite distinct from Cad's own theory. I'm not quite so sure that we can say a Feruchemist tapping an attribute isn't "holding Investiture" while s/he taps, though.

[Moogle]

Interesting thought, though quite distinct from Cad's own theory. I'm not quite so sure that we can say a Feruchemist tapping an attribute isn't "holding Investiture" while s/he taps, though.

 

I suppose the question really is if Miles was a Feruchemical gold savant. If that can even be a thing? His resistance to pain suggests that it might be a thing, much like pewter savants become immune to it. My understanding of savants is that the constant Investiture flowing through you forces changes in your body as it adapts to the power. And keep in mind that I'm not suggesting immortality comes about as a result of becoming a 'Stormlight savant' - that comes from holding the Stormlight, not the physical changes it forces on your body.

 

I am uncertain if Feruchemical gold compounding means you're constantly holding Investiture as well. Feruchemy is distinct from Allomancy in that the Investiture stored in metalminds comes from you, if there's even Investiture in metalminds and not a different mechanism at work. This would mean that Feruchemy can't turn you into a savant, because everything you got was already a part of you. Compounding ruins that, as it provides an external source for the Feruchemical power.

 

There is also something to consider with the idea of typed vs untyped Investiture - Stormlight comes with myriad benefits, perhaps because it's 'untyped' and just raw Honor or whatever. Same with Breaths. Feruchemical gold really only provides one benefit, as it's a specific use of Investiture, so it would be 'typed' Investiture, and thus not grant immortality. Something to explore, for sure.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Moogle

[Kier]

I suppose the question really is if Miles was a Feruchemical gold savant. If that can even be a thing? His resistance to pain suggests that it might be a thing, much like pewter savants become immune to it. My understanding of savants is that the constant Investiture flowing through you forces changes in your body as it adapts to the power. And keep in mind that I'm not suggesting immortality comes about as a result of becoming a 'Stormlight savant' - that comes from holding the Stormlight, not the physical changes it forces on your body.

 

I am uncertain if Feruchemical gold compounding means you're constantly holding Investiture as well. Feruchemy is distinct from Allomancy in that the Investiture stored in metalminds comes from you (so it would be unlikely to turn you into a savant), but then Compounding ruins that. There is also something to consider with the idea of typed vs untyped Investiture - Stormlight comes with myriad benefits, perhaps because it's 'untyped' and just raw Honor or whatever. Same with Breaths. Feruchemical gold really only provides one benefit, as it's a specific use of Investiture, so it would be 'typed' Investiture, and thus not grant immortality. Something to explore, for sure.

 

I was under the impression that stormlight is much like the mists. which is much like the breaths. Where as if per say Vin was able to channel the mist like Kaladin does stormlight it would grant her immortality. However, for whatever reason that isn't how Scandrials magic system came about. SO they don't hold the as you put it "untyped" investiture. 

[Cad]

I wouldn't call what I said a theory. I was just saying that if Moogle's idea of a full Knight Radiant always holding Stormlight is true, then it would follow that the Stormlight would constantly heal the environmental damage that causes aging, in much the same way that it heals the minor cuts that Kaladin has received. Do all of the KR orders breathe in Stormlight? So far we haven't seen it from Jasnah or Shallan, which leads me to wonder if they can heal like Kaladin can.

[Moogle]

I wouldn't call what I said a theory. I was just saying that if Moogle's idea of a full Knight Radiant always holding Stormlight is true, then it would follow that the Stormlight would constantly heal the environmental damage that causes aging, in much the same way that it heals the minor cuts that Kaladin has received. Do all of the KR orders breathe in Stormlight? So far we haven't seen it from Jasnah or Shallan, which leads me to wonder if they can heal like Kaladin can.

 

Aging doesn't work that way in the Cosmere. People with the ability to heal themselves continuously (Miles in Alloy of Law) still age just 'cuz. It seems to be Cognitive, ie. you expect yourself to age, and so you do. It's unfortunate, but such is magic.

 

If I were Kurk, I'm sure I'd have a nice theory as to how Investiture basically solidifies your Form, or connects it to other, more stable Forms, preventing you from changing and thus aging, but I'm not.

 

As to all the Orders using Stormlight, Shallan remarks on feeling like there was a storm running through her when she first Soulcasts her goblet into blood. Jasnah's shadow falling on Stormlight lamps allowed her to take in the Stormlight and use it in Shadesmar. Darkness, probably Nalan/Herald of Order 2, definitely can take Stormlight in and use it. Lift converts food to Stormlight, and definitely uses it. Darkness also fears her being close to any spheres. It's safe to say that all Radiants can all use it like Kaladin, I think.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Moogle

[hoser]

A ...

 

As to all the Orders using Stormlight, Shallan remarks on feeling like there was a storm running through her when she first Soulcasts her goblet into blood. Jasnah's shadow falling on Stormlight lamps allowed her to take in the Stormlight and use it in Shadesmar. Darkness, probably Nalan/Herald of Order 2, definitely can take Stormlight in and use it. Lift converts food to Stormlight, and definitely uses it. Darkness also fears her being close to any spheres. It's safe to say that all Radiants can all use it like Kaladin, I think.

This.  And the Stoneward in Starfall vision seems to infuse.  As she is order 9 and Kaladin is order 1, it is not just two adjacent orders. 

 

The following is what I don't get from the OP.

Oh, and because this is a physical change (likely to your sDNA), this would likely be inherited by your children, so I'd guess that all lighteyes are descended from Radiants who held enough Stormlight to have this change occur.

We don't know that the Radiants even mingled with the general population after the Recreance (the lack of explanation for their actions could suggest otherwise).  They could have just wandered up to the Silent Mount in Jah Keved, formed the Vanrial community and dedicated themselves to keeping the Way of Kings and the dawnchant around. 

 

If picking up a Radiantblade made the eye color change, then it would make sense that the ruling class would be light-eyed and have all the Shardblades. 

 

If the lighteyed people have no Shardblades and those who have Shardblades have darkeyes, I don't see how the lighteyed nobility gets established and has all the Shardblades.  Particularly when the Radiants are reviled for betraying mankind. 

 

What am I missing?

 

Edit: added "and has all the Shardblades"

Edited January 9, 2014 by hoser

[Kurkistan]

If I were Kurk, I'm sure I'd have a nice theory as to how Investiture basically solidifies your Form, or connects it to other, more stable Forms, preventing you from changing and thus aging, but I'm not.

 

I am Kurk, as it turns out, and have no such theory because people don't have Forms.

[Aether]

I am Kurk, as it turns out, and have no such theory because people don't have Forms.

Ye clever bastard!

[Aoibheann]

It will be interesting to see if Kaladin's eyes begin to lighten with the low level of stormlight he's constantly holding. 

 

I like the sDNA argument for carrying to children, etc. 

[Isomere]

I just think its all stormlight and there is no inherited light eye changes with blades or radianthood. If the radiant has enough stormlight his eyes glow, if the light runs out the eyes stop glowing and revert to their original color. That explains why Taln has dark eyes. Feed him some stormlight and i bet we will see those eyes change to amber glowies.

[IllNsickly]

I just think its all stormlight and there is no inherited light eye changes with blades or radianthood. If the radiant has enough stormlight his eyes glow, if the light runs out the eyes stop glowing and revert to their original color. That explains why Taln has dark eyes. Feed him some stormlight and i bet we will see those eyes change to amber glowies.

Isomere, if i wasn't on mobile, i'd give you an up-vote.