loganmathewjohnson Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 So, I recently read the Hope of Elantris, a short story available on Brandon's site. And since I'm not required to place spoiler tags here, I'll just run with it. So, we know Ati is the man Atium was named for, and holder of the shard Ruin. In Elantris, and the Hope of Elantris, Aon Ati is 'Hope'. And from the Letter, we learn that Ati 'was once a kind and generous man'. So, it could be a coincidence, the way things are going down, and Ati and the Aon share a name. But, I've noticed with Sanderson, there are few coincidences. So, to the meat of this idea: I think that, like Hoid, Ati was a worldhopper (a member of the 17th Shard, perhaps?) and thereby found Ruin. It's a solid theory, I think... However, knowing that I don't know everything, I'm interested what everybody else has to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Welcome to the forums! That was a nice catch with the Ati parallelism. Unfortunately, it's been confirmed that their is no connection. The two are even pronounced differently. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pechvarry Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Assuming Aona is a first-generation shard (no one held it before her), I find it likely that Aons are the closest thing to pre-shattering language. But if she built the language along with her system, it actually would make sense to name hope after Ati. Giving Ruin to him seems very much like a last-hope kind of effort. ...which makes me wish Brandon would just run with it. After all, he has also said there are a lot of lingual/cultural links between planets. But I don't remember how firmly worded his "no connection" WoB is, and wishing doesn't make it so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 ...But I'm also sure I heard somewhere that he's confirmed that the linguistics are connected between worlds, so there is still hope (or at least Ati). That said, there's a girl in real life named Matisse that this book was written in honor of. Presumably, he derived "ati" as the only aon her name could contain, and decided for story purposes that it should mean Hope. Also presumably, he'd already named Ati on Scadrial. Still, there's wiggle-room for him to retroactively decide there's a connection. He really likes nerfing his villains by making them good guys seen in a different light, so I can see him deciding that Ati was complicit in his own demise; that he knew he wouldn't be able to resist the Intent for very long which is why he chose to match with Leras, and somehow helped the plan to kill them both so Harmony could eventually ascend... now I'm just rambling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loganmathewjohnson Posted December 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 (edited) Wow, guys, that was just awesome. It was cool how many replies I got in such a short time, and while I'm a LITTLE confused, the Coppermind will help me with things I didn't quite understand. I'm pretty new to the forums, and it's just plain rad. It used to be just me and my brother, bouncing around theories, before he moved out to Missionary Service in our church. Nice to have a place to go to keep the theories running!! Edited December 20, 2013 by loganmathewjohnson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jag519 Posted December 26, 2013 Report Share Posted December 26, 2013 Also, do we know for a fact that all of the original shards are from the same planet? I kind of just assume that's canon, but I dont actually know if that's just what we all accept or if it actually is 100% canon that they are all from that planet (I forget the name of the planet, but the you know the one I mean) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromium Compounder Posted December 26, 2013 Report Share Posted December 26, 2013 Also, do we know for a fact that all of the original shards are from the same planet? I kind of just assume that's canon, but I dont actually know if that's just what we all accept or if it actually is 100% canon that they are all from that planet (I forget the name of the planet, but the you know the one I mean) We have no evidence to the contrary, but I don't think we have WoB or anything saying so either way. It makes sense though that all the original holders would have been on the planet where the Shattering happened when it happened, and most likely they're from there. It's possible they were world hoppers like Hoid, and the 17th shard, but most likely not. And the planet most believe the Shattering happened on is Yolen, which is apparently where Dragonsteel takes place. I'm looking forward to the day when Brandon revises Dragonsteel and publishes a canon version of it, but who knows when that will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meg Posted December 27, 2013 Report Share Posted December 27, 2013 Welcome to the forums! That was a nice catch with the Ati parallelism. Unfortunately, it's been confirmed that their is no connection. The two are even pronounced differently. He did? Where? ...But I'm also sure I heard somewhere that he's confirmed that the linguistics are connected between worlds, so there is still hope (or at least Ati). This is confirmed. Brandon Sanderson There are interesting connections around the cosmere between linguistics and some cultures. Though different groups of humans were created on different planets, the Shards all share a single point of origin. However, the Tranquiline Halls legends are not related to a Nalthis/Roshar connection. source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted December 28, 2013 Report Share Posted December 28, 2013 Letters seem to be common to multiple worlds. For example, "shash" is both a letter on Nalthis and a glyph on Roshar. Ati is a letter of the Steel Alphabet and an aon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonko the Sane Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Assuming Aona is a first-generation shard (no one held it before her), I find it likely that Aons are the closest thing to pre-shattering language. But if she built the language along with her system, it actually would make sense to name hope after Ati. Giving Ruin to him seems very much like a last-hope kind of effort. ...which makes me wish Brandon would just run with it. After all, he has also said there are a lot of lingual/cultural links between planets. But I don't remember how firmly worded his "no connection" WoB is, and wishing doesn't make it so. I may be wrong, as I unfortunately don't have the time to find a quote right now, but I believe that WoB has said that AonDor and Elantrians did not exist prior to the Splintering of the Selian Shards. If this is the case, I find it very unlikely that Aona had a hand in the development of Aonic. It seems to me that the magic system spontaneously developed around the language, much like the Dakhor arts developed around "ancient Fjordell characters." Additionally, I seem to recall that the given translations for Aons are an invention of Arelish culture, and have in fact evolved and shifted over time. I do not believe they have much - if any - bearing on the Aons' applications in AonDor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 I may be wrong, as I unfortunately don't have the time to find a quote right now, but I believe that WoB has said that AonDor and Elantrians did not exist prior to the Splintering of the Selian Shards. If this is the case, I find it very unlikely that Aona had a hand in the development of Aonic. It seems to me that the magic system spontaneously developed around the language, much like the Dakhor arts developed around "ancient Fjordell characters." Additionally, I seem to recall that the given translations for Aons are an invention of Arelish culture, and have in fact evolved and shifted over time. I do not believe they have much - if any - bearing on the Aons' applications in AonDor. I will find this in the annotations, but I am certain that I read that the Aons do, indeed, exist (with their meaning) independent of the Aonic language. In other words, their language operates in reverse. They did not come up with a drawing that they thought went well with the idea of "light"; before the Arelish people had a language, the symbol existed, like a physical law of the universe, waiting to be discovered. It was absolutely not a magic system being born from a language; the language was born from the magic system. And, he's said, there are Aons that no one has yet discovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) I will find this in the annotations, but I am certain that I read that the Aons do, indeed, exist (with their meaning) independent of the Aonic language. In other words, their language operates in reverse. They did not come up with a drawing that they thought went well with the idea of "light"; before the Arelish people had a language, the symbol existed, like a physical law of the universe, waiting to be discovered. It was absolutely not a magic system being born from a language; the language was born from the magic system. And, he's said, there are Aons that no one has yet discovered. Darnam is correct, the Aons exist, and have their meaning, independent of humans. Edited January 4, 2014 by WeiryWriter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonko the Sane Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 You're right; I had forgotten that. A part of my half-recollected argument still stands, though: I believe that the Arelish translation of Aons is only partially relevant to their magical significance. Many of them, like Aon Ien, mean things linguistically that have absolutely nothing to do with their effect when drawn by an Elantrian. But then, there are others, such as Aon Daa, whose effect does somewhat align with their meaning. From this, I suppose we must infer that, at least originally, the Aons matched up with their meanings fairly well, and any discrepancy is likely due to distortion over time. On another note, that's a terrible idea for a language! Are we saying that it was impossible to say 'cow' until someone discovered the word for it? For all we know, it's still impossible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 On another note, that's a terrible idea for a language! Are we saying that it was impossible to say 'cow' until someone discovered the word for it? For all we know, it's still impossible! First, there's a way to use Aon's phonetically, as the word "dor" itself is phonetically spelt out. So if you've got the sound "cow" you can use Aons to write it out phonetically. Second, I mean you could always come up with a single symbol that means cow and use it in your own language. It just wouldn't have any magical cow-related effects when drawn by an Elantrian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 On another note, that's a terrible idea for a language! Are we saying that it was impossible to say 'cow' until someone discovered the word for it? For all we know, it's still impossible! Keep in mind that they had a language before the Aons. The Aonics, the ethnic group found in Arelon and Teod is not technically "indigenous" to those regions. They migrated to Arelon from places unknown and discovered Elantris already build, but empty. So they would definitely have been able to say "cow" in their original language even if they didn't know the Aon for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts