Oudeis Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Tineyes see through the mist, not because their eyesight is simply mechanically improved, but because it is now more attuned to the powers of creation, which is what the mists are. They clear from your vision like radio interference when you find the right channel. Wyndle tells us that some spren have trouble hiding and some have trouble being seen. I think that burning tin would affect your ability to see spren. Like how Lift can touch Wyndle because her body is slightly in the cognitive realm, I think tin's metaphysical adjustment to your eyesight makes it harder for spren to hide from your gaze. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartbug Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Tineyes see through the mist because Tineyes get their powers from some Investiture from Preservation, which is what the mists are. That is also why the mists are repelled by Hemalurgic burners. If anything, tineyes would have a harder time seeing spren, just because of their foreign Investiture (Syl doesn't like Hoid because of that, I believe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicrosil Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 Very interesting idea! As bartbug said, it's unlikely that tin itself would pick up on a foreign investure. But, it's possible an equivalent of sorts exists in the Roshar system. Perhaps this is what allows Rock to see Syl... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Very interesting idea! As bartbug said, it's unlikely that tin itself would pick up on a foreign investure. But, it's possible an equivalent of sorts exists in the Roshar system. Perhaps this is what allows Rock to see Syl... I don't necessarily think it is technically a magical power to be able to see Nahel-bonded Spren, I just think it is a side effect of either having a higher amount of innate investiture or of being more attuned to said investiture. That or lowlanders really are airsick and being able to see them is actually meant to be the standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aradel Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 I would think that tin wouldn't help much with seeing spren unless it helps the user see into the cognitive realm. The mist, so far as I know, exists in the physical realm. So there's no precedent for tin helping see anything cognitive, even if "tuning in" works on Roshar as well as it does on Scadrial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted December 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 I would think that tin wouldn't help much with seeing spren unless it helps the user see into the cognitive realm. The mist, so far as I know, exists in the physical realm. So there's no precedent for tin helping see anything cognitive, even if "tuning in" works on Roshar as well as it does on Scadrial. While I don't fully disagree, I have some trouble following your logic here... correct me if I'm mistaken, but it almost sounds like you're saying, "the fact that tin lets you see mist better doesn't affect your ability to see spren, because mist is physical and spren are cognitive." I have two issues with the premise. The first and most obvious is that tin doesn't help you see the mist; it lets you see through it. If mist is physical, then that proves it's not a specifically realmatic thing, because it doesn't let you see through things like buildings. Your eyes are being attuned to something strongly Invested. I'm not sure I buy your idea that Spren are entirely cognitive. I think that, like Shallan traveling to Shadesmar, they're being cognitive, but the ones we've seen are all now here. Wyndle said his consciousness is here, he can run along walls and ledges (yes I know only Lift can touch him, but the fact remains, he's correlating to physical places in the physical realm.) Syl can carry leaves. I think the spren we've seen so far have a FAR stronger presence in the Physical Realm than you give them credit for. I think the difference is more like the visible spectrum vs. infrared. There's infrared radiation everywhere around us, carrying information, our eyes just can't see it. If your eye could be attuned slightly, you might be able to pick up on some of it. In the case of tin on Scadrial, that shift filters out the mist. I don't see why it's unlikely that the shift might find the area of the spectrum that spren hide from normal human eyes from. Syl is always visible to Kaladin and to Rock. However hard she tries to hide, there are ways for human eyes to always find her. I think tin might be one of those ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterAhlstrom Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 I am completely ready to believe that a tin savant could see spren. Brandon hasn't told me anything of the sort at the present moment, but this would not surprise me at all. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted December 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 Mr. Ahlstrom, I find you to be a very, very intelligent man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevi Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 I'm no expert on Stormlight Archive (haven't finished reading WoK yet, a few pages await), but isn't it the Investiture that allows you to see spren? If so, burning any metal would enable you to see spren to some extend. And about Allomantic tin in particular, I don't think it would make any dfference. The mist-sight is bound exclusively to the bond between the Tineye and Preservation - burning it is not getting you attuned to any Shard, it attunes you to Preservation only, as far as I understand. Tin savants are weird, though, don't know what to think of it. I don't know if it has been discussed, but I like to think that they gain some limited possibility of seeing Investiture, it would kinda match the fact they get their heightened senses from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted December 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 I'm no expert on Stormlight Archive (haven't finished reading WoK yet, a few pages await), but isn't it the Investiture that allows you to see spren? If so, burning any metal would enable you to see spren to some extend. Hrm... no? Rock doesn't seem to have any special Investiture, and he sees Syl just fine. Presumably, all Parshendi have Spren bonded to them, yet when Kaladin is super-charged with Stormlight he doesn't see anything. I mean, it's a theory, and I guess we don't have enough examples for me to prove that it's implausible; the few instances we get are, to the best of my knowledge, inconclusive. Still, you don't really offer any actual support for your own theory. If you know of a time that anyone in text suggests it, or a time that a heavily Invested person saw a spren trying to hide, I will throw my support behind your theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevi Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 That's just the way I think of it until a better explaination is given, not a real theory. I believe that in a world where Honor is one of the Shards ruling, your personality would make you Invested more or less. While it doesn't seem to apply to other Shardworlds, I think it does to Roshar, as there is much more interaction between Shards and humanity than in other books. People feel the Thrill during the fight (of course we can't be sure whether it's a form of Investiture or not, but I think it could be, to some extend), the spren are being attracted to people's personalities and feelings, a special case being Honorspren attracted to people's overall personality and traits, dying men are given insight to other realms, et cetera, et cetera. So it kind of seems to me that such explaination is as good as any. I connect the fact of Rock being able to see Syl to his loathing of fighting. Syl is a Honorspren, and Rock is the second bridgeman after Kaladin to be called honorable (IMHO), as he sticks to his refusal of hurting another human, even though he could just give it up (to not risk the possibility of displeasing other bridgemen).That makes me wonder why Sigzil don't seem to see Syl, so it can also be strongly flawed. We also haven't been given any proof that either Adolin or Dalinar can't see her, i guess my idea strongly depends on this. But as I say, it's as good as any. I just like to explain things to myself while reading. I don't mean to be confusing anyone here. On the other hand, I am convinced that burning tin attunes you to Preservation and Preservation only. Sprensight and mist-sight aren't the same thing, of that I'm deeply convinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted December 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 Syl is flitting around Kaladin all the time, and Dalinar never notices her. Also, when Rock sees Syl, he tells them why that's not so unusual; unless there are a LOT of honorspren around there's no reason Rock would be so used to seeing all the Honorspren and no other kinds, so I don't think his "honor" makes him terribly more invested. it's an interesting theory, but if anyone with any strong personality trait were more invested, I feel like there'd be a ton of evidence throughout the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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